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Post by michael on Jul 14, 2021 9:49:07 GMT
Yes the measles one is a good example. After the MMR panic nonsense lots of kids were not getting measles vaccines but because a huge percentage of other kids had had one we didn’t see a huge uptick in measles and serious measles cases. The MMR panic guy is still doing strong business in the US I believe It's where it started. The vaccine used material derived from an unborn fetus and the pro-life movement went into overdrive. An anti-vax, conspiracy theory movement then developed and did enormous harm to the campaign against measles. |
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 14, 2021 9:58:35 GMT
The UK population and vaccines at any age group are far more readily accepting than just about the rest of the world and certainly more than any European country, except maybe Malta. My SiL said as much when the vaccine was first developed (she’s a GP in Czech Republic) and still there are restrictions in SK and CZ because so many remain at risk due to lack of take up. Whilst it looks like the UK, England more, are being a bit cavalier with easing there is far more reason in the UK to do so because a huge swathe of us are protected to whatever extent the vaccine is capable whereas the rest of Europe will be more at risk when autumn comes along. The mere fact that Macron has had to order health workers to be vaccinated is a case in point: they should be lining up voluntarily!
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Post by Alex on Jul 14, 2021 13:14:33 GMT
I had my second jab last night and the doctor surgery had a queue of people my age or slightly older. There was little evidence of 20somthings lining up for their jab. But that was just at the time I was there so it's purely anecdotal but i have heard a lot about younger people being much more reluctant to come forward. I cant help wondering that rather than being scared of the jab or worried about long term effects, they just can't be bothered.
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Post by Tim on Jul 14, 2021 13:18:55 GMT
Isn't it already the case that younger people ARE being more widely affected by the virus much more than they were a year ago simply due to, shock horror, it mutating in that pesky way that viruses do?
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Post by johnc on Jul 14, 2021 13:25:27 GMT
My daughter managed to get the vaccine this morning, 2 months short of her 18th birthday. She was allowed to get it because she goes in to see my wife's grandmother regularly and in a loose sense, is a carer. She was very keen to get it.
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Post by Alex on Jul 14, 2021 13:28:18 GMT
Isn't it already the case that younger people ARE being more widely affected by the virus much more than they were a year ago simply due to, shock horror, it mutating in that pesky way that viruses do? The Delta variant is a lot more transmissable and I heard today that the R number is as high as 5-6 in some areas. The UK was fifth in global cases yesterday (and over the past week) but 33rd in the world for deaths suggesting the vaccine is working. It's not surprising that Boris is being heavily criticised for lifting all restrictions. |
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Post by PG on Jul 14, 2021 16:55:09 GMT
Isn't it already the case that younger people ARE being more widely affected by the virus much more than they were a year ago simply due to, shock horror, it mutating in that pesky way that viruses do? The Delta variant is a lot more transmissable and I heard today that the R number is as high as 5-6 in some areas. The UK was fifth in global cases yesterday (and over the past week) but 33rd in the world for deaths suggesting the vaccine is working. It's not surprising that Boris is being heavily criticised for lifting all restrictions. 5th for cases (of course as per the above discussions we are testing a lot more) and 33rd for deaths. The vaccine is working. So it ought to be surprising that Boris is being heavily criticised, not the other way round. Too many vested interests seem to want permanent lock down and restrictions - they will not be satisfied unless we adopt a zero covid strategy. Which is impossible. So, permanent lock downs is what they want. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 14, 2021 16:59:44 GMT
As I mentioned a few days ago, T&T is a building into a massive issue. I've got over 16% of my warehouse staff off in Swindon, the vast majority is because they've been 'pinged'. That's £2m worth of stock I can't get out a week just from one warehouse, if this keeps going along with the huge driver shortage it won't be long before shelves are starting to empty in supermarkets. But please don't start panic buying.....
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Post by Alex on Jul 14, 2021 20:04:10 GMT
The Delta variant is a lot more transmissable and I heard today that the R number is as high as 5-6 in some areas. The UK was fifth in global cases yesterday (and over the past week) but 33rd in the world for deaths suggesting the vaccine is working. It's not surprising that Boris is being heavily criticised for lifting all restrictions. 5th for cases (of course as per the above discussions we are testing a lot more) and 33rd for deaths. The vaccine is working. So it ought to be surprising that Boris is being heavily criticised, not the other way round. Too many vested interests seem to want permanent lock down and restrictions - they will not be satisfied unless we adopt a zero covid strategy. Which is impossible. So, permanent lock downs is what they want. That's why it's not surprising that Boris is being criticised. It's the one thing he's done right but it's a gift that just keeps giving for the tories and they know that the public at large love him for it. |
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Post by Alex on Jul 14, 2021 20:08:57 GMT
As I mentioned a few days ago, T&T is a building into a massive issue. I've got over 16% of my warehouse staff off in Swindon, the vast majority is because they've been 'pinged'. That's £2m worth of stock I can't get out a week just from one warehouse, if this keeps going along with the huge driver shortage it won't be long before shelves are starting to empty in supermarkets. But please don't start panic buying..... This is being replicated across the country in all sectors. There's growing calls for those being pinged to be allowed to carry on as normal so long as they have a negative test themselves and been double jabbed, which would make sense so long as we can be confident that the lateral flow tests are accurate enough. The frustration for a lot of employers is that even of they follow all the rules such as distancing and mask wearing in the workplace, their staff are still being pinged which makes all the money spent on PPE and perspex panels seem a complete waste. |
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Post by garry on Jul 14, 2021 20:10:33 GMT
If you think it’s bad in England, the Scottish level 0 rules include::
Indoors at home up to 8 people from up to 4 households can meet.
Up to 10 people from up to four households can meet in a public indoor space - such as a pub or restaurant.
Up to 15 people from up to 15 households can meet outdoors - whether in a private garden or public place.
Children under 12 already don't count towards the total number of people. From Monday, they will not count towards the total number of households ether.
In level zero up to 200 people can attend weddings and funerals.
They must have been smoking some haggis when they came up with those rules.
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Post by garry on Jul 14, 2021 20:13:34 GMT
As I mentioned a few days ago, T&T is a building into a massive issue. I've got over 16% of my warehouse staff off in Swindon, the vast majority is because they've been 'pinged'. That's £2m worth of stock I can't get out a week just from one warehouse, if this keeps going along with the huge driver shortage it won't be long before shelves are starting to empty in supermarkets. But please don't start panic buying..... This is being replicated across the country in all sectors. There's growing calls for those being pinged to be allowed to carry on as normal so long as they have a negative test themselves and been double jabbed, which would make sense so long as we can be confident that the lateral flow tests are accurate enough. The frustration for a lot of employers is that even of they follow all the rules such as distancing and mask wearing in the workplace, their staff are still being pinged which makes all the money spent on PPE and perspex panels seem a complete waste. There is no legal requirement to isolate if you’re pinged by the t&t app (as opposed to getting a call from the t&t team).They are allowed to carry on as normal. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 14, 2021 20:18:11 GMT
As I mentioned a few days ago, T&T is a building into a massive issue. I've got over 16% of my warehouse staff off in Swindon, the vast majority is because they've been 'pinged'. That's £2m worth of stock I can't get out a week just from one warehouse, if this keeps going along with the huge driver shortage it won't be long before shelves are starting to empty in supermarkets. But please don't start panic buying..... This is being replicated across the country in all sectors. There's growing calls for those being pinged to be allowed to carry on as normal so long as they have a negative test themselves and been double jabbed, which would make sense so long as we can be confident that the lateral flow tests are accurate enough. The frustration for a lot of employers is that even of they follow all the rules such as distancing and mask wearing in the workplace, their staff are still being pinged which makes all the money spent on PPE and perspex panels seem a complete waste. It does feel a bit like a waste of time and money sometimes. We’ve got everything in place still apart from temperature checking which was a pointless exercise other than making people feeling safer when coming in to work. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 14, 2021 20:22:46 GMT
This is being replicated across the country in all sectors. There's growing calls for those being pinged to be allowed to carry on as normal so long as they have a negative test themselves and been double jabbed, which would make sense so long as we can be confident that the lateral flow tests are accurate enough. The frustration for a lot of employers is that even of they follow all the rules such as distancing and mask wearing in the workplace, their staff are still being pinged which makes all the money spent on PPE and perspex panels seem a complete waste. There is no legal requirement to isolate if you’re pinged by the t&t app (as opposed to getting a call from the t&t team).They are allowed to carry on as normal. I’m guessing you don’t have a union to deal with!! I’ve been threatened with section 43.1 of the employment act on several occasions and that aside, there’s a perception/reputation issue (I’m not saying I agree) so it’s our current policy for employees to isolate no matter whether it’s due to the app and T&T team. |
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Post by garry on Jul 14, 2021 20:34:41 GMT
There is no legal requirement to isolate if you’re pinged by the t&t app (as opposed to getting a call from the t&t team).They are allowed to carry on as normal. I’m guessing you don’t have a union to deal with!! I’ve been threatened with section 43.1 of the employment act on several occasions and that aside, there’s a perception/reputation issue (I’m not saying I agree) so it’s our current policy for employees to isolate no matter whether it’s due to the app and T&T team. I’m not suggesting you could or should do anything as a business. Just making the point that there is no legal requirement. My team are all completely free to do what feels right to them. I’d say about 50% have the app. One lady has been pinged three times - on one of those occasions she was isolating at home with covid! (She lives in an apartment and presumes her phone got ‘pinged’ by the next door neighbours). Makes no difference in my business because we can all work at home. My own personal choice (that will surprise no one) is that I have never used the app. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 14, 2021 20:47:20 GMT
I’m guessing you don’t have a union to deal with!! I’ve been threatened with section 43.1 of the employment act on several occasions and that aside, there’s a perception/reputation issue (I’m not saying I agree) so it’s our current policy for employees to isolate no matter whether it’s due to the app and T&T team. I’m not suggesting you could or should do anything as a business. Just making the point that there is no legal requirement. My team are all completely free to do what feels right to them. I’d say about 50% have the app. One lady has been pinged three times - on one of those occasions she was isolating at home with covid! (She lives in an apartment and presumes her phone got ‘pinged’ by the next door neighbours). Makes no difference in my business because we can all work at home. My own personal choice (that will surprise no one) is that I have never used the app. I don’t use the app either, I prefer to use my own common sense. Unfortunately, whilst there are many genuine people, there are those who love the idea of 10 days being paid to stay at home rather than come into work. I know of one person who has had over 10 COVID related absences in less than a year….unlucky, stupid, or taking the piss?! Whilst I’m thinking about people taking it….. furlough. I have quite a few issues with the scheme, but we had about 60 people furloughed due to being at risk and we topped the 80% up to 100%. Right thing to do at the time. While on furlough, they accrue holiday which I don’t agree with and with the challenges we had with drivers I was looking forward to 22 drivers coming back when they no longer needed to shield. Only to find out that more than half had booked 2 weeks holiday which started when furlough ended….why do you need 2 weeks holiday when you can’t go anywhere and you’ve been off work for over a year? |
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 14, 2021 21:02:43 GMT
While on furlough, they accrue holiday which I don’t agree with and with the challenges we had with drivers I was looking forward to 22 drivers coming back when they no longer needed to shield. Only to find out that more than half had booked 2 weeks holiday which started when furlough ended….why do you need 2 weeks holiday when you can’t go anywhere and you’ve been off work for over a year? This is one thing that got to me too.... where I used to work, a couple of staff were placed on furlough, came back around November and then promptly took most of December 2020 off as holiday as they'd accrued almost an entire year's leave despite working for only about 4 months. Sadly in this case as the company closed the site in January 2021, it meant that the company avoided having to pay out for loads of untaken holiday; we suspect that they forced the staff to take all their leave in December knowing full well what lay ahead. |
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Post by Alex on Jul 14, 2021 22:00:48 GMT
Regarding the legality of isolating if you get a ping from T&T, you are right Garry but a lot of organisations require staff who get a ping to isolate as part of their Covid response. As a consultant visiting numerous customer sites I'm constantly being asked to declare whether T&T has asked me to isolate.
My wife was off school last week because she was pinged and whilst she did as she was told, she did go out for a walk in the local fields most days as she was symptom free and knew she wouldn't see anyone. Although she was perfectly well and had negative lateral flow tests the day before being pinged, her school told her to stay away as that was policy.
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Post by garry on Jul 15, 2021 7:19:00 GMT
My wife was off school last week because she was pinged and whilst she did as she was told, she did go out for a walk in the local fields most days as she was symptom free and knew she wouldn't see anyone. Although she was perfectly well and had negative lateral flow tests the day before being pinged, her school told her to stay away as that was policy. Id say she should turn it off and help get the country back to normal. |
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Post by Alex on Jul 15, 2021 9:08:59 GMT
I've turned mine off now because I agree with you. As long as I'm not ill and I'm taking the government approved home tests at least twice a week I'm not going to feel guilty about getting out there. I will continue to socially distance wherever possible and wear a mask whenever I'm somewhere that asks me to or where it's a legal requirement (until Monday). That's more or less what personal responsibility should look like.
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Post by Martin on Jul 15, 2021 9:53:11 GMT
This is being replicated across the country in all sectors. There's growing calls for those being pinged to be allowed to carry on as normal so long as they have a negative test themselves and been double jabbed, which would make sense so long as we can be confident that the lateral flow tests are accurate enough. The frustration for a lot of employers is that even of they follow all the rules such as distancing and mask wearing in the workplace, their staff are still being pinged which makes all the money spent on PPE and perspex panels seem a complete waste. There is no legal requirement to isolate if you’re pinged by the t&t app (as opposed to getting a call from the t&t team).They are allowed to carry on as normal. Funnily enough this was discussed on a call with the government this morning that we attended. They’ve pretty much said that we should just tell people oto have a test if they get pinged on the app and get them back to work ASAP. |
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Post by PG on Jul 15, 2021 10:15:44 GMT
There is no legal requirement to isolate if you’re pinged by the t&t app (as opposed to getting a call from the t&t team).They are allowed to carry on as normal. Funnily enough this was discussed on a call with the government this morning that we attended. They’ve pretty much said that we should just tell people oto have a test if they get pinged on the app and get them back to work ASAP. Good grief. Common sense. Well, apart from the test bit. We've never downloaded the app. If places want our details they had to do it the old fashioned way. We never got a call. |
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Post by PG on Jul 15, 2021 10:21:51 GMT
While on furlough, they accrue holiday which I don’t agree with and with the challenges we had with drivers I was looking forward to 22 drivers coming back when they no longer needed to shield. Only to find out that more than half had booked 2 weeks holiday which started when furlough ended….why do you need 2 weeks holiday when you can’t go anywhere and you’ve been off work for over a year? This is one thing that got to me too.... where I used to work, a couple of staff were placed on furlough, came back around November and then promptly took most of December 2020 off as holiday as they'd accrued almost an entire year's leave despite working for only about 4 months. A friend of ours said to his staff that he'd top up their furlough pay to 100% if they took / surrendered some of their holiday (I can't remember the rate), as accruing holiday pay on furlough is a real double whammy on the employer and the other employees. Same as long term sick or maternity / paternity pay. You still accrue holiday whilst on those. |
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Post by johnc on Jul 15, 2021 14:48:24 GMT
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Post by Alex on Jul 15, 2021 17:21:58 GMT
Well my daughter has finished school early for summer. They've had too many cases to properly work out all the close contacts so they've closed school to her entire year group and sent them to work from home.
Earlier on I was walking through town and overheard a woman on the phone telling whoever she was speaking to that she was taking her kids out of school next week to make sure their holiday doesn't get ruined if they get told to isolate. What a ridiculous state of affairs.
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Post by Martin on Jul 15, 2021 17:45:08 GMT
Well my daughter has finished school early for summer. They've had too many cases to properly work out all the close contacts so they've closed school to her entire year group and sent them to work from home. Earlier on I was walking through town and overheard a woman on the phone telling whoever she was speaking to that she was taking her kids out of school next week to make sure their holiday doesn't get ruined if they get told to isolate. What a ridiculous state of affairs.I was in a meeting this morning when a colleagues mentioned he was thinking the same. Slightly in his defence, the school seems to be decimated, 4-8 people per class and supply teachers covering so it does sound like a bit of a waste of time. But mine would still be going in! |
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Post by garry on Jul 15, 2021 19:09:43 GMT
My youngest is on her third isolation. She’s never tested positive. In all three of her isolations not one person in her bubble caught covid from the infected person. In a year of fabulously stupid ideas (step forward “empty the hospitals of the elderly back to nursing homes without testing them” and “let’s use Bluetooth as a proximity tool”) school bubbles gets a place in the top ten.
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Post by Alex on Jul 15, 2021 21:45:02 GMT
What's the likelihood of any data ever being released on the percentage of children sent home to isolate who later tested positive for Covid. I suspect it's quite a low number.
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Post by Tim on Jul 16, 2021 7:52:29 GMT
What's the point in sending a year group home, shouldn't it be the whole school or don't they share rooms and corridors anymore
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Post by Alex on Jul 16, 2021 8:01:45 GMT
What's the point in sending a year group home, shouldn't it be the whole school or don't they share rooms and corridors anymore Given that other year groups have also had kids dropping out like flies I suspect the rest of the school wont make it to next Friday's end of term (we finish a lot later than Scotland) |
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