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Post by garry on Mar 2, 2021 13:20:15 GMT
Any thoughts on what we might see tomorrow or what you think should be done? Lots of talk of increasing corporation tax. Not taking any soundings on it yet, but my instinct would be that an increase in corporation tax would make me less likely to try and generate profit and more likely to look for growth via investment. Any way you look at it, the deficit (I think it’s about £400Bn) ain’t going to be plugged easily ( as an example, corporation tax raises about £4Bn per percentage point increase even before you take into account any avoidance measures that businesses will take).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 13:26:50 GMT
I don't see business rates going up much, if at all, they need to generate revenue rather than drive business out of the UK. Personal allowances may drop but nothing major at the moment.
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Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 13:30:20 GMT
I'd like to see business rates redefined so that out-of-town units are on a level playing field with high streets.
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Post by johnc on Mar 2, 2021 13:48:41 GMT
Corporation Tax rates have been on a downward trend for the past 15 years so I see a 1% rise being very likely. No-one likes increases in tax but I doubt 1% will impact many people's behaviour. A 1% increase in income tax might also be a possibility although he might target NI instead. Capital Gains tax has also been mentioned more than a few times and I can see some tinkering but it would be a very brave Tory Chancellor who significantly increases CGT or does away with Entrepreneur's Relief (now called Business Asset Disposal Relief - BADR).
I think there might be an increase in fuel duty, justified as a green levy and some other tinkering.
However I don't see him making real sweeping changes (yet) - I see him setting out the hole we are now in and starting slowly and moderately to claw our way back out. However I think the real plan will be to allow a bit of inflation to creep in to reduce the real value of Government debt and also a concerted effort to get business up and running again to generate wealth and to try to get the country back to the 1980's when the profit generation nearly put us back in a balance of trade surplus - that might be wishful thinking but it has to be the objective.
EDIT: I also think the dividend tax rate is ripe for an increase to as much as 10% for basic rate taxpayers, 35% for higher rate taxpayers and 40% for additional rate taxpayers.
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Post by johnc on Mar 2, 2021 13:52:21 GMT
I'd like to see business rates redefined so that out-of-town units are on a level playing field with high streets. That would only work if High Street rates were reduced to the same level as out of town units. If it were the other way round, be prepared to see your local out of town centres close down. And where are Councils going to get their money from if rates fall? Lots of problems and few solutions.
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Post by PG on Mar 2, 2021 14:06:56 GMT
The country's finances are in such a shit state (same as every country right now) that now would be the perfect time to be truly radical, bin huge swathes of tax legislation, simplify loads more and reverse decades of layer upon layer of leglistic crap. However, that of course will not happen and instead there will be tinkering with this, moving that a bit, freezing of this threshold and that threshold, a penny here and penny there, a sneaky raid there, a few choice targets picked on - Capital Gains Tax as "only the rich pay it" and Corpration tax as companies don't get the vote I expect - and that's the budget done. Plus lots of talk of "now is not the time for generally higher taxes" but they may have to come as we all need to be fiscally prudent to get the finances back on track. Blah, blah, blah.
Which gives me a certainty that any chance of us being a low tax economy was killed off for a generation by Covid.
Personally, as a retiree living off pensions and investment income (including being that most hated of all things, a landowner and small time landlord), I expect I'll be at the front of the queue for a right royal fucking over on capital gains tax.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 2, 2021 14:31:02 GMT
The country's finances are in such a shit state (same as every country right now) that now would be the perfect time to be truly radical, bin huge swathes of tax legislation, simplify loads more and reverse decades of layer upon layer of leglistic crap. However, that of course will not happen and instead there will be tinkering with this, moving that a bit, freezing of this threshold and that threshold, a penny here and penny there, a sneaky raid there, a few choice targets picked on - Capital Gains Tax as "only the rich pay it" and Corpration tax as companies don't get the vote I expect - and that's the budget done. Plus lots of talk of "now is not the time for generally higher taxes" but they may have to come as we all need to be fiscally prudent to get the finances back on track. Blah, blah, blah. I tend to agree on the simplification but really do think that CGT and dividend tax needs to be re-thought. I understand all the arguments for keeping them low, but they nevertheless benefit the richest in society. As someone who sits plum in the middle of "tax cash cow" territory (ie earning enough money to be taxed to the max but not earning it via dividends or other less highly-taxed forms of income that many very wealthy people are able to take advantage of to lessen their tax contributions), I already effectively hand over nigh on half my income in taxes. It irks to be asked to contribute even more when people wealthier than me, who pay less tax than me, are not.
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Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 14:45:19 GMT
I already effectively hand over nigh on half my income in taxes. It irks to be asked to contribute even more when people wealthier than me, who pay less tax than me, are not. That's why I dislike 'green' taxes so much. Robbing the poor to pay the rich.
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Post by Tim on Mar 2, 2021 15:05:01 GMT
I'd definitely make changes to dividend tax ahving recently seen an example of that at work for a well remunerated (through dividends) business owner. Mind you if he paid himself an equivalent salary his company would've paid less Corp Tax.
I reckon this will be a budget of small changes but a big neon sign saying "Look how much shit we're in financially" in order to prepare everyone for tax rises next time round.
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Post by LandieMark on Mar 2, 2021 15:42:41 GMT
Dividend tax would bother me. I pay a decent amount of Corporation tax and personal income tax. The tax and NI burden of having to pay myself by PAYE makes running a business not worthwhile.
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Post by garry on Mar 2, 2021 16:21:54 GMT
Dividend tax would bother me. I pay a decent amount of Corporation tax and personal income tax. The tax and NI burden of having to pay myself by PAYE makes running a business not worthwhile. Isn’t the gap quite narrow already (between taking dividends and paye)?
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Post by ChrisM on Mar 2, 2021 16:28:35 GMT
Euthanasia and assisted suicide should be legalised
VAT should revert to the 8% that it once was, and NI contributions by the employee should also be cut
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 16:42:05 GMT
I would like to see a free bottle or two of amber dew, for medicinal purposes of course, nothing suspect 'ere guv.
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Post by Boxer6 on Mar 2, 2021 16:50:25 GMT
Euthanasia and assisted suicide should be legalised VAT should revert to the 8% that it once was, and NI contributions by the employee should also be cut While the latter two would be very beneficial to me personally, I can't quite get what your first two have to do with the budget?
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Post by LandieMark on Mar 2, 2021 16:58:48 GMT
Dividend tax would bother me. I pay a decent amount of Corporation tax and personal income tax. The tax and NI burden of having to pay myself by PAYE makes running a business not worthwhile. Isn’t the gap quite narrow already (between taking dividends and paye)? It has got narrower in the last few years. It is the NI that would kill it, as I currently don't pay that while taking dividends. It is all very well saying taking a salary reduces corporation tax - it will, but HMRC gets that back in terms of NI from both my company and myself.
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Post by Tim on Mar 2, 2021 17:04:45 GMT
Euthanasia and assisted suicide should be legalised VAT should revert to the 8% that it once was, and NI contributions by the employee should also be cut While the latter two would be very beneficial to me personally, I can't quite get what your first two have to do with the budget? Chris is volunteering not to be a drain on society?
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Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 17:07:19 GMT
Maybe Chris was offering to assist others not to be a drain on society?
Another great idea in the budget, but one never suggested, would be to slash spending.
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Post by Tim on Mar 2, 2021 17:11:15 GMT
Maybe Chris was offering to assist others not to be a drain on society? Another great idea in the budget, but one never suggested, would be to slash spending. Yeah. That RAF Poseidon that was flying in circles round here yesterday could've just stayed on the ground at Lossiemouth instead. Then they could've pocketed the money. Unless it was surveying the thousands pf potholes round here as part of a plan to actually fix the roads properly, in which case it was money well spent.
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Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 17:14:07 GMT
I'm thinking more along the lines of train lines to Birmingham, encouraging oversized organisations to look for ways to economise rather than spend and maybe saving every household the cost of a TV licence.
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Post by Tim on Mar 2, 2021 17:21:01 GMT
Oh I agree 100% on the train line to Brum, who the hell in their right mind would want to go/relocate to there? What about an expensive 2 mile piece of tarmac to the left of the capital, I'm never sure who is actually meant to be paying for that but it seems likely that it's in danger of just going to be a parking spot for winged things that don't need their wings anymore.
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Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 17:28:14 GMT
The government don’t pay for that. They just give it authorisation. I agree that should be at the right of London, though. If it’s needed at all.
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Post by PG on Mar 2, 2021 17:35:27 GMT
Another great idea in the budget, but one never suggested, would be to slash spending. I didn't even suggest that as I just can't see any way that will happen. It would be just far too sensible.
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Post by PG on Mar 2, 2021 17:41:23 GMT
I'd definitely make changes to dividend tax ahving recently seen an example of that at work for a well remunerated (through dividends) business owner. Mind you if he paid himself an equivalent salary his company would've paid less Corp Tax. If the Chancellor merged income tax and employee NI into one tax (for the employee), then that would solve a lot of these type of issues. By using suitable rates, low earners would not be affected, but big dividend receivers would get taxed more. But we should also remember that the reason that dividends are taxed lower is that they are paid our of after tax income as the company has already paid CT on the profit. When Advanced CT credits used to be given with a dividend, the tax rate was the same as for income tax, but you could offset the ACT credit in part payment. So if companies paid CT and then dividend receivers paid full IT, the income is being taxed twice.
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Post by ChrisM on Mar 2, 2021 18:22:32 GMT
Euthanasia and assisted suicide should be legalised VAT should revert to the 8% that it once was, and NI contributions by the employee should also be cut While the latter two would be very beneficial to me personally, I can't quite get what your first two have to do with the budget? "... or what you think should be done." As far as other things go, abandon HS2 because it is costing a hell of a lot for very little time saving on the rail journeys involved. Total review of NHS spending, use of "management consultants", over-bureaucracy, too many tiers of management, poor use of centralised purchasing to secure best deals etc Not sure if the BBC costs the government money but cut down on pay to "celebrities" and higher management Cut down on MP's "allowances" (although probably trivial; in the overall scheme of nation al spending) Sell off the site of the Houses of Parliament and have a new place built somewhere complete with night-time accommodation for MPs so that we don't have to pay them for second homes, as per Berlin for example. Should also be cheaper than refurbishing the current houses of parliament. Abolish airport departure duty for UK citizens from UK airports Abolish VAT on gas, electric, phones, abolish insurance premium tax, travel insurance tax etc Stop paying pensions/benefits to "ex-pats" - if you want the benefits, you should live in the UK The whole system of "council tax subsidies" needs reviewing too, the tax bill has no relationship to your ability to pay (up to a certain point) Do something to discourage "fly tipping" Increase personal allowances on income tax Desperately need incentives to encourage manufacturing to re-start in the UK, ideally for things that we spend the most money on importing (not sure where food, clothing, footwear and cars fit into this but losing Honda in Swindon is nothing to be proud of, nor was losing The Grenadier to France)
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Post by Roadrunner on Mar 2, 2021 18:41:32 GMT
Everybody is wallowing in the same lake of shit, so a worldwide agreement to print money/wipe out debt/do something without trashing the currency would be to everyone's benefit. Not likely to happen, though.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 2, 2021 18:57:29 GMT
The Palace of Westminster is a Grade 1 listed building and a UNESCO World Heritage site. I’m not sure you could sell it off to Travelodge.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 18:59:13 GMT
There is a Clancy book out there by a title I cannot remember, it posits a Wall street crash with huge consequences but as the computers are trashed there is no record so they just reset to last save point and go on like nothing happened. I know, fiction but I reckon something similar could be done.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 2, 2021 23:35:53 GMT
Dividend tax would bother me. I pay a decent amount of Corporation tax and personal income tax. The tax and NI burden of having to pay myself by PAYE makes running a business not worthwhile. I'm about to, technically, switch to self-employment. I am yet to sit down with a financial advisor and work out all the less than thrilling aspects of that.
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Post by johnc on Mar 3, 2021 9:00:07 GMT
Isn’t the gap quite narrow already (between taking dividends and paye)? It has got narrower in the last few years. It is the NI that would kill it, as I currently don't pay that while taking dividends. It is all very well saying taking a salary reduces corporation tax - it will, but HMRC gets that back in terms of NI from both my company and myself. Because the company gets tax relief on salary and er's NI but doesn't on dividends, there isn't a great deal off a difference in overall cost between a low salary/high dividend remuneration package and just a salary once income exceeds about £80K if you withdraw all the profit from the business each year. However if profit is say £100K and you only draw out £50K there are still significant savings to be had with the low salary/high dividend arrangement due, as Mark says, to the saving in NI. At 13.8% for employer's NI, it has become a real thorn in the side of not only tax planning but also tax policy. Ever since Gordon Brown started to increase NI (quickly followed up with the annual comment that once again the Labour party had not increased tax!!!) the Government's hands have been tied behind its back in trying to modernise or dramatically change the tax system. NI is good in some ways in that it forces the likes of Amazon to pay er's NI on the wages it pays employees but in all other ways it is a disincentive to employment and encourages employers to take on part time and lower paid staff.
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Post by Tim on Mar 3, 2021 9:14:09 GMT
The Palace of Westminster is a Grade 1 listed building and a UNESCO World Heritage site. I’m not sure you could sell it off to Travelodge. Sell it off to some wealthy Yank, they could stick it in the desert next to London Bridge! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_(Lake_Havasu_City)
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