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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 13:16:02 GMT
Scotland, obviously. With its institutions corrupted and parliament unable to hold the government to account, how on earth do you think independence is going to work out?
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Post by PetrolEd on Mar 1, 2021 14:12:17 GMT
And yet Nicola Sturgeons stock doesn't seem to be harmed. Is Salmond just damaged goods that nobody believes a word he says?
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 14:27:17 GMT
I think you'd need to be unbelievably naive to think there isn't wrongdoing going on. With the inquiry clearly being obstructed and the Crown Office redacting evidence that implicates Sturgeon absolutely stinks. To vote for this shit-show you'd need to be off your head on crack. But then, Scotland has the biggest drug problem in Europe so perhaps that's how they shore up their vote?
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Post by PG on Mar 1, 2021 14:28:53 GMT
It's a travesty that part of the UK is run by, effectively, a one woman dictatorship. That is as corrupt - ethically, morally and even financially - as most dictatorships are. She has power but, in reality, no responsibility for whatever she decides.
Trouble is, whats the answer? Short of murdering somebody on prime time TV, I can't see her stepping down, whatever the Salmond evidence is. And even if she did murder somebody, then the 40% SNP hardcore would give her the benefit of the doubt as the English would have obviously caused her to murder somebody.
Actually, I think there are only two solutions. Either devolution has to be scrapped (which I can't see happening) or the UK has to become a federal nation. Where Scottish, English, Welsh and NI MP's become separate bodies to run those federal parts of the UK, scraping the local "town council" assemblies / Scottish parliment. The whole parliament can meet to vote on reserved matters - defence, foreign policy etc. A small "senate" would replace the HOL. There would need to be a strong degree of fiscal freedom for devolved matters - no "Barnet formula". That way there might be at least more recognitin by people of the consequences of voting for certain local parties.
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Post by Tim on Mar 1, 2021 14:30:39 GMT
Errr. Nice, thanks for that.
Good to know near neighbours have such a high opinion of us.
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 14:43:21 GMT
Errr. Nice, thanks for that. Good to know near neighbours have such a high opinion of us. Which bit do you take issue with? Another referendum is inevitable but I do think the question needs to be changed from, "do you think Scotland should be an independent country?" to "should Scotland remain part of the United Kingdom" as it takes out the positive bias of Yes and also the technical problem of Scotland then joining the EU and ceasing to be an independent country.
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Post by Tim on Mar 1, 2021 14:48:27 GMT
Well, as someone living in Scotland, happy to do so, not having a drug problem and being able to vote freely your statements don't come across very well.
That's all.
Clearly I'm not saying everything is perfect but it's not a complete toilet up here.
I'm fairly sure that most other states would struggle to look good in these particular circumstances.
Oh, and please don't anyone else start down the 'the Scots will blame the English' route. That's bollocks for the majority of us up here.
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 14:53:08 GMT
We'll find out at the elections is people are prepared to vote for them now knowing this. You might think the end justifies the means, but I think you'd have to be on crack.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2021 14:56:35 GMT
We have our own eejits blaing others for their woes as does every nation on the planet. Hopefull the level headed among us can keep us mostly pointed straight.
There are a lot of places up north and in Scotland I would really like to live but that ain't the issue, as is usual the politicking is getting in the way of doing the job and creating partisan politics/hate.
We are going the get there but it might take a little while longer than wee hope.
Sorry for the pun, I just had to.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 1, 2021 15:05:45 GMT
Scotland, obviously. With its institutions corrupted and parliament unable to hold the government to account, how on earth do you think independence is going to work out? People in glass houses are usually advised not to throw stones.
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Post by Tim on Mar 1, 2021 15:06:30 GMT
I'm not 100% sure I'd take Alex Salmond's word for anything. Could be worse, we could be in France
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 15:09:35 GMT
Scotland, obviously. With its institutions corrupted and parliament unable to hold the government to account, how on earth do you think independence is going to work out? People in glass houses are usually advised not to throw stones. What's the comparable issue?
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 1, 2021 15:14:00 GMT
People in glass houses are usually advised not to throw stones. What's the comparable issue? None you'll ever admit to. But there's plenty of gossip in London about how corrupt the current UK government is.
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 15:18:27 GMT
Gossip vs. demonstrable corruption.
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Post by Tim on Mar 1, 2021 15:32:41 GMT
Is there currently demonstrable corruption in the SNP case yet?
I had a quick look just now but the news is the same as last week - Salmond is certain of something but as far as I know nothing has been presented yet?
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 15:35:13 GMT
Crown office instruction for the removal of evidence that only related to Sturgeon not seem a bit strange?
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Post by Tim on Mar 1, 2021 15:39:45 GMT
Depends what that evidence is. I'll take the crown offices word for it for now, they should know better than me, there's no immediate reason to jump to the conclusion that they're corrupt.
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 15:49:10 GMT
The before and after of what was redacted which clearly demonstrates that the SNP is trying to suppress evidence successfully via the Crown Office. They redacted "This is untrue and is a breach of the Ministerial Code." in relation to when Sturgeon knew of allegations against him. That line was taken out under the guise of protecting witness identity.
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Post by Tim on Mar 1, 2021 16:14:03 GMT
Ok. Not good, especially when the bods at the crown office should always be conscious of future scrutiny of their decisions. I'm sure there are a bunch of lawyers rubbing their hands at the thought of some chunky upcoming fees
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Post by johnc on Mar 1, 2021 18:18:34 GMT
The bit I don't like about the Crown Office is that it does not appear to be independent of the Government, when I believe it should be.
I am sure there is plenty of dirt in the SNP cupboard but I doubt there are any other parties in the UK which have been in power who also don't have lots of things they would rather nobody found out about.
I think the best thing Sturgeon could do would be to drop the independence demand and just get on with running the country. She would get more support. Independence colours everything and prevents the proper running of the country IMHO.
I do find the tarring of all Scots with the same brush somewhat insulting and I speak to a very large number of wealthy people who either already have an escape plan to leave Scotland if there is independence or are adamant that they will do so. In the past week or so I have spoken to a senior university lecturer and two doctors who will be leaving for England.
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 19:02:07 GMT
Nobody has tarred all Scots with the same brush. I do however stand by my view that anybody who can still vote for this lot following recent revelations need their heads read.
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Post by Big Blue on Mar 1, 2021 21:14:28 GMT
No nation is spared the horrors of a leadership using nationalist vitriol and whipping up fervour on a platform of deceit. Neither are they spared having politicians using their privilege to gild the nests of themselves and their friends. And every nation has politicians and their affiliates that clearly break laws in full view of the public eye without these acts resulting in the same sanctions that would befall otherwise “ordinary” members of the public.
Never forget that politicians seek their power so there is never only a common good rationale behind their actions.
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Post by Stuntman on Mar 1, 2021 21:30:53 GMT
I don't care much for Alex Salmond as a human being, but like Nigel Farage and George Galloway, he falls firmly into the category of 'underestimate this person at your peril' as far as I'm concerned.
Part of me would like to see him take down Nicola Sturgeon, the Crown Office and whatever else as a consequence. The various goings-on do not smack of justice or fair play to me.
I have no axe to grind against Scotland, nor any Scots. I'm proud to be British and proud to be English.
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Post by michael on Mar 1, 2021 21:41:56 GMT
I understand that the Lord Advocate is due to give evidence tomorrow regarding their role in trying to censor evidence for the (SNP led) inquiry. But they'll be meeting the committee in private first before giving evidence in public. The whole thing stinks but does demonstrate how fine the balance is in an open democracy. The SNP have obviously stuffed institutions with their own people and people who have no problem breaking rules to suit their agenda. A major failing seems to be the lack of a robust press to hold them account.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 2, 2021 9:22:20 GMT
Nobody has tarred all Scots with the same brush. I do however stand by my view that anybody who can still vote for this lot following recent revelations need their heads read. That's rich coming from a Tory.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 2, 2021 9:24:32 GMT
To be clear, I think Salmond and Sturgeon are both ghastly and I am no supporter of the SNP. I just smell hypocrisy.
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Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 10:02:18 GMT
Nobody has tarred all Scots with the same brush. I do however stand by my view that anybody who can still vote for this lot following recent revelations need their heads read. That's rich coming from a Tory. Does the personal attack indicate you don't have a better argument?
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 2, 2021 12:22:32 GMT
Come now, it wasn't a personal attack. I don't for a moment think you are personally anything other than an entirely upstanding person.
It was an attack on the Tory party. Now, as this forum's No.1 Tory cheerleader, I partly understand why a post like this would come from you. On the other hand, since the Tory party is hardly a model of probity, particularly at the moment, in your position I might have chosen, sticking with the stone-throwing theme, to bear in mind the old biblical admonishment about casting the first stone.
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Post by michael on Mar 2, 2021 12:51:22 GMT
Had you been referring to the Tories you'd have used the definite article, The Tories. You've still not identified what actions the Government have taken that compares with the actions discussed above by the SNP. I also think it's also difficult to fairly call me the number 1 Tory cheerleader so long as Tim's here.
Wrong again!
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Post by Tim on Mar 2, 2021 12:55:46 GMT
Had you been referring to the Tories you'd have used the definite article, The Tories. You've still not identified what actions the Government have taken that compares with the actions discussed above by the SNP. I also think it's also difficult to fairly call me the number 1 Tory cheerleader so long as Tim's here.Wrong again! Eh! I'm not a Tory cheerleader, I presume you were actually joking! I think I'm agnostic. I reckon the SNP are clearly suffering the same problem that has afflicted all parties, at least in my awareness of politics, in that they've been in power too long. IMO it happened to the Tories in the '90s and Labour in the late 2000s. If the Tories get a majority in 2024 (?) then it'll happen to them again.
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