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Post by michael on Feb 15, 2021 11:59:33 GMT
Another reminder that the days of driving enjoyment are finished. Shame they canned the XJ, Jaguar do seem to like developing cars that they then don't release.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 15, 2021 12:14:59 GMT
I think Tesla drivers enjoying sub 2 sec 0-60 times might dispute the assertion that driving enjoyment is finished.
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Post by Tim on Feb 15, 2021 12:22:43 GMT
It'll be a different type of driving enjoyment but I've got to be honest and say that I've seen precisely ZERO Teslas being driven at anything other than 'Honda Civic with parcel shelf cushions on a Sunday afternoon' pace.
I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be slinging 2 1/4 tonnes of battery car down a backroad
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Post by Martin on Feb 15, 2021 12:24:27 GMT
Tesla style acceleration would be fun for a while, but you can't really use it all that often and how a car rides/handles/steers is something you can appreciate all the time. I do think that with the control you can have over individual motors, low COG etc, it will be possible to get electric cars to drive really well and that's starting to be seen already.
Going fully electric does make sense for Jaguar.
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Post by michael on Feb 15, 2021 12:27:55 GMT
I think Tesla drivers enjoying sub 2 sec 0-60 times might dispute the assertion that driving enjoyment is finished. True, they could have watched half an episode of Eastenders as they waited 14 minutes for the vehicle to sufficiently prime itself in order to achieve the 0-60 time.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 15, 2021 12:49:51 GMT
I think Tesla drivers enjoying sub 2 sec 0-60 times might dispute the assertion that driving enjoyment is finished. I get that your current Tesla driver has total traffic light dominance but thats as far from drivers utopia. Luckily its also a hugely rare sight to see an electric car been given the beans, in fact I don't think I've ever seen it as I believe the chat on electric car forums to be only about range. I have little interest in electric but then I'm not your typical buyer and the benefits to company car drivers is obvious. Not sure I'd want to bet the entire company on Electric sales in the next few years but I'll probably be proved wrong. I'm also assuming they think battery tech is going to take a massive leap in the next few years. Buy an F-Type V8 while you can.
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Post by garry on Feb 15, 2021 12:56:28 GMT
Technology is going to close the driving enjoyment gap really quickly. I can imagine we’ll see electric motors ‘mapped’ to look , sound and drive like anything you want - a v12 in your hot hatch.
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Post by michael on Feb 15, 2021 13:00:34 GMT
Technology is going to close the driving enjoyment gap really quickly. I imagine it will. With the road pricing tracker you'll need to have with you any driving enjoyment will be fined accordingly.
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Post by johnc on Feb 15, 2021 13:21:54 GMT
Luckily its also a hugely rare sight to see an electric car been given the beans, in fact I don't think I've ever seen it as I believe the chat on electric car forums to be only about range. I've driven ours at full chat and enjoyed the experience. With the weight low down, the car corners in a way no other SUV I have driven, does: it stays flat and has more grip than most drivers have nerve. When it does start to move it has a very balanced feel. The regenerative braking can also be used to great effect. When it is turned to its most aggressive the car slows down really quickly when you lift off, meaning you can dive deep into a corner, lift off getting lots of retardation and then just gently press the throttle again to rocket out of the corner. When you get a flow going it is really quick but it takes a bit of work to get it going smoothly. I really don't think we need to worry about the car being the fun limiting factor - the Politicians are a much more dangerous threat. As of next year all new cars will need proactive input from the driver to exceed the speed limit and I would put money on it that within 15 years of that being introduced all cars will be monitored for road pricing and speeding purposes and you will just get your bill through the door every month. By that time, something like an original Mini or an MX5 will provide more real enjoyment than anything new, with the ability to exceed the grip of the tyres at speeds below the death ray limit.
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Post by Ben on Feb 15, 2021 15:23:31 GMT
An friend of mine noted that different combustion engines offer different characters (a V6 is different from a V8 for example), but there's nothing really to differentiate one electric drivetrain from another other than how fast they can go.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 15, 2021 15:26:15 GMT
I could be in the market for a small electric MX-5 style vehicle for zipping about country lanes. Range wouldn't have to be great, circa 200 miles. Instant acceleration, low centre of gravity etc.
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Post by PG on Feb 15, 2021 17:12:39 GMT
With everything going to have to be electric by 2030 (or PHEV until by 2035), I guess there was no way that Jag could financially justify two model rounds to get to the change. So it makes sense to change now rather than later. Keep the current range running (could be some excellent offers!) until 2025 and then make the jump. Does seem odd to can the BEV XJ as that would have been a good stepping stone and the development was pretty much sunk money. It'll be a shame if he sees Jaguar as just expensive cars once again - like in the days of the XJ and XJS as their only offerings. They really need to be in the aspirational and exec market to be viable in my eyes, not just the Managing Director market.
The comment that Land Rover will be SUV's means that Jag are going to have to offer gorgeous looking designs to entice people into lower slung cars if they can't do SUV's any more under the new plan.
Bollore's comment "Bollore hinted that the future Jaguar Land Rover line-up would "feature a few less nameplates" as its focuses on its more popular models." gives him scope to thin the range too. I expect that once the XE / XF / F Pace platform dies in 2025, the Velar has to go too.
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Post by Tim on Feb 15, 2021 17:22:17 GMT
I think it makes sense to can the XJ although they should've done it much earlier in the development cycle. How many do you see of any of this class of cars do you actually see - S CLass, 7 series, Audi A8? The only common barge sized car appears to be the Tesla Model S. Almost everything else on the road in the 'expensive luxury' category is an SUV of some sort.
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 15, 2021 23:37:22 GMT
Technology is going to close the driving enjoyment gap really quickly. I imagine it will. With the road pricing tracker you'll need to have with you any driving enjoyment will be fined accordingly. The number of reasons not to live on this island lengthens by the day.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 21:04:05 GMT
All the better for the lunatics to drive cars off the road so we can live in a socialist wunderland and get the bus or cycle. Bastards.
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Post by garry on Feb 17, 2021 11:38:50 GMT
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Technology moves at such a pace that what would look like magic to one generation becomes a normal to the next. I can see a future where electric cars get lighter and their range improves - this is just basic moore's law type progress. But imagine if you're lightweight electric car could look, feel and sound like a v8 to the point where it was impossible to tell the difference? I'm sure it's not beyond the capability of clever engineers to map electric motors so that they respond like a v8. And I'm sure it's not beyond the capabilities of clever engineers to replicate the sounds and vibrations of a v8.
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Post by michael on Feb 17, 2021 11:47:05 GMT
I’m sure they’ll develop, we’re surely due a battery breakthrough. Problem is what goes with it. Road pricing has to happen to make up for the loss of fuel duty and then there’s the thorny issue of power generation capacity which, thanks to unreliable renewables, is decreasing.
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Post by garry on Feb 17, 2021 12:00:08 GMT
I’m sure they’ll develop, we’re surely due a battery breakthrough. Problem is what goes with it. Road pricing has to happen to make up for the loss of fuel duty and then there’s the thorny issue of power generation capacity which, thanks to unreliable renewables, is decreasing. I agree we'll have to pay for the privilege! Power generation is the big issue we have to solve next. Each hour 430 quintillion Joules of energy from the sun hits the Earth. That's roughly the total energy consumption of our planet per year.
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Post by michael on Feb 17, 2021 12:15:49 GMT
Each hour 430 quintillion Joules of energy from the sun hits the Earth. That's roughly the total energy consumption of our planet per year. Quite. There isn't enough water on earth to extinguish the sun but somehow we think that we can control it with net-zero.
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Post by Blarno on Feb 17, 2021 12:28:18 GMT
Surely an electric XJ would have made sense? A big, quiet wafter made even quieter by a silent drivetrain?
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Post by garry on Feb 17, 2021 13:18:14 GMT
Each hour 430 quintillion Joules of energy from the sun hits the Earth. That's roughly the total energy consumption of our planet per year. Quite. There isn't enough water on earth to extinguish the sun but somehow we think that we can control it with net-zero. But it does mean that if we could harness around 0.01% of the Suns energy that lands on the earth then we’d solve the power generation problem.
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Post by michael on Feb 17, 2021 13:58:58 GMT
Quite. There isn't enough water on earth to extinguish the sun but somehow we think that we can control it with net-zero. But it does mean that if we could harness around 0.01% of the Suns energy that lands on the earth then we’d solve the power generation problem. It might solve generation but, as Texans have recently found out, is storage is the issue that needs work. Fossil fuels and nuclear are highly efficient at storing energy to be released when you need it. As I imagine most people will be charging their cars overnight then solar is only ever going to work if the power can be stored.
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Post by Tim on Feb 17, 2021 14:11:50 GMT
The Texans have also recently found out that insulation is 'a thing'
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Post by johnc on Feb 17, 2021 14:21:55 GMT
I have a friend who moved to Marbella just pre Brexit and is finding it pretty chilly in the house at night. It has one open fire and that's it. Apparently the aircon is supposed to have a heating function too but he has been told it is common for this not to work because it lies idle for such long periods of time. He's just put extra blankets on the bed and wears a jumper - it won't be long before it is shorts and T shirt weather for him.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 17, 2021 15:17:00 GMT
But it does mean that if we could harness around 0.01% of the Suns energy that lands on the earth then we’d solve the power generation problem. It might solve generation but, as Texans have recently found out, is storage is the issue that needs work. Fossil fuels and nuclear are highly efficient at storing energy to be released when you need it. As I imagine most people will be charging their cars overnight then solar is only ever going to work if the power can be stored. Unfortunately, for the Texans, coal piles have frozen and gas powered generators have gone offline due to poor maintenance - the fossil fuels have let them down. Add in the fact they don't have interconnectors with nearby states and some of the poor buggers have been without power for a couple of days. A few of the anti-green power brigade have been pinning it all on a few frozen wind turbines but that was only a small number affected.
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Post by Big Blue on Feb 17, 2021 16:00:32 GMT
Yep. Texas is suffering from private power providers that take the money at the time, hence the lack of interconnectivity to make up any shortfall - why would they invest in that stuff when a democrat might be providing them with power? Their power provision math [sic] is based on the summer months requiring air con to make 100+ degrees outside into 68 inside and not winter months when as per the Marbella issue above the heat exchanger only drives 50ish up to 68 and there are open fireplaces.
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Post by Tim on Feb 17, 2021 16:52:48 GMT
I saw a comment that the Texans were having to import electricity from the dreaded Mexicans. Not sure how true that is given the lack of interconnectors with other states. Perhaps they're running a long extension cable through some of the illegal entry tunnels
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 17, 2021 18:03:11 GMT
I have a friend who moved to Marbella just pre Brexit and is finding it pretty chilly in the house at night. It has one open fire and that's it. Apparently the aircon is supposed to have a heating function too but he has been told it is common for this not to work because it lies idle for such long periods of time. He's just put extra blankets on the bed and wears a jumper - it won't be long before it is shorts and T shirt weather for him. We have some friends who moved to "Marbs" about 8-9yrs ago and have never looked back. They are lucky that they run a consultancy business that they can operate from anywhere. We stayed with them a few years ago - they have a lovely villa with sea views in Elviria and their children are at an international school learning half a dozen languages. Ever since, my wife periodically wishes out loud that we could do the same...she's forever showing me the weather forecast for that part of Spain and how it always seems to be hot and sunny.
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