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Post by Tim on May 28, 2020 13:39:10 GMT
... replace the 320.
Last year when it was in for its service I asked the dealer to look at a couple of rust spots.
Not long after that it had the mystery misfire that turns out to be £4,500 worth of misbehaving transfer box and that took up my attention somewhat.
The response from BMW about the rust was that the bit on the tailgate wasn't their problem and they'd need some more photos (thanks John Clark BMW in Dundee for not doing that properly when you had the car for a couple of days) to assess the bit at the bottom of the trailing edge of the door.
TBH since then it hasn't really been in my mind for a variety of reasons and for quite a while I've had a suspicion that the car had been hit on the offside rear quarter so I don't really expect it to be BMWs problem.
However, I finally gave the car a really good wash last night and it now has some bubbling at the bottom of the offside front wing, where it meets the sill, some for a few inches along the bottom of the front nearside door and more above the part of the left rear light that's in the tailgate.
It seems likely that some may be down to not quite fantastic accident repairs but surely not all of it?
Anyway I think the time might be rapidly approaching when I need to get rid of it and due to a sense of impending restrictions in freedom I think its time to get a bigger engined replacement.
Mrs Tim has opposed another 370Z but perhaps a 40i version of a 3 or 4 might be acceptable (assuming that they don't all rust that is).
Ideally I'd like another estate but getting a black one with red leather seems pretty unlikely before I even consider electric seats so a 4 series looks like the most likely solution.
In a related development a quick check of the service history indicates the car has only done 8k miles since a service in April 2019 so an apparent huge drop in my normal annual mileage should help if petrol prices go through the roof.
Finally, does anyone think I should look at a 335d/435d at all?
They will have the same xDrive that has misbehaved on my car plus diesel is currently the root of all ills in the world!
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Post by Roadrunner on May 28, 2020 14:48:25 GMT
That is more rust than on my 1932 Standard, or my old 2008 Mercedes. How old is it?
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Post by Tim on May 28, 2020 16:07:56 GMT
November 2013.
It turns out BMWs have been quite good at rusting for a while, all the E39s I've had or been in close contact with have issues - more so than my allegedly rust bucket Fiat - the E46s had a few favourite rusty bits too.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 28, 2020 19:40:10 GMT
I’ve never come across BMWs with rust issues. It’s usually Mercs of the 90s that corrode.
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Post by racingteatray on May 28, 2020 20:01:01 GMT
I’ve never come across BMWs with rust issues. It’s usually Mercs of the 90s that corrode. Me neither. And I've had seven of them (although two were plastic which doesn't perhaps count). After nearly three and a half years with my 440i, I'm still very pleased with it. It's a great engine/gearbox combo, and the GC bodyshell is a good compromise between practicality and looks. |
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Post by Roadrunner on May 28, 2020 20:48:33 GMT
I’ve never come across BMWs with rust issues. It’s usually Mercs of the 90s that corrode. Yes, they were utter rot boxes. They must have sorted it now because my 124,000 mile 2008 Benz was completely rust free. |
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Post by Tim on May 29, 2020 8:58:11 GMT
A bodyshop manager told me that MErc's problem in the 90s was that they were buying cheap steel from, possibly, Argentina then routing it through somewhere legitimate and passing it off as top grade stuff. Hence the cars rusted while they were in the showroom. Doesn't appear to have had any impact on their reputation though! All you serial BMW owners need to get your hands on one that's a bit older. Any E46 you see out and about now will probably have had new front wings, maybe more than once. They also rot where the rear bumper mounts to the body and I'm sure there are a few other bits that I can't remember. E39s go in a vast array of places. There's a thin panel between the bootlid and bumper where they go, the petrol filler area, front wings, the bootlid on saloons where the boot release and no plate lights are, etc. Granted they're all pretty old now but my M5 started above the bumper at about 8 years old, the 530d I had (a 2003 version) in 2013 was going in all the above places and had been repaired in some others too. I checked the 320 again this morning and both front wings are bubbling where they meet the sill, not just the offside. Perhaps it was in a much bigger crash than I thought  |
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Post by PetrolEd on May 29, 2020 13:49:16 GMT
My old 911 was pretty much held together by the rust. I had the joys of owning one of those cars where the various garages you took it to the specialist would say, "oh I've never seen one that bad before". To be fair when you looked at it without getting really close up it looked spotless
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Post by michael on May 29, 2020 14:13:37 GMT
I checked the 320 again this morning and both front wings are bubbling where they meet the sill, not just the offside. I don't know about these things but if it was crashed does that mean the weld itself is what is rusting? Presumably in normal circumstances these areas are protected with the galvanisation process? If so it sounds like the repair isn't done as well as one might hope and I'd be getting shot for that reason alone. |
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Post by Tim on May 29, 2020 14:45:48 GMT
I'm not sure about this shape but I know the E46s had bolt-on front wings so changing them was easy enough (and they rusted around the arch rather than at any joint with another panel).
In light of my admitted dislike of overpriced brand crap maybe I should replace it with a non-premium product?
The only issue there is that I have talked myself into NOT having another 2 litre petrol/diesel but something more exciting while its still allowed.
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Post by racingteatray on May 29, 2020 14:47:49 GMT
The only issue there is that I have talked myself into NOT having another 2 litre petrol/diesel but something more exciting while its still allowed. It doesn't have to be premium to be exciting, but definitely do exciting. Life is tedious enough as it is. |
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Post by michael on May 29, 2020 14:48:17 GMT
Do you need an estate?
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Post by johnc on May 29, 2020 14:48:24 GMT
I had my E46 Touring for 5 years my E92 Coupe for 8 years and my F32 Coupe for 4+ years. None of them showed any signs of rust (although they were washed weekly and regulary examined for stone chips).
My wifes E46 was a couple of years older than mine and has the start of a tiny blister on the front wing so it is a known problem.
Petrol or diesel? The problem is that the uneducated make decisions on which cars can enter city centres etc and modern diesels are very much tarred with the wrong brush. For a daily driver I think it would be hard to beat a good 430D/435D in its blend of relaxed driving, excellent performance and for the grunt, great mpg. They are also significantly cheaper now. However if I were in your shoes I would probably be looking at a 440i just because it is perceived to be a bit more environmentally friendly. The 2 litre petrols are not greatly better at mpg than the 6 cylinder and are no where near as involving on the engine front.
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Post by Tim on May 29, 2020 15:19:36 GMT
I had my E46 Touring for 5 years my E92 Coupe for 8 years and my F32 Coupe for 4+ years. None of them showed any signs of rust (although they were washed weekly and regulary examined for stone chips). My wifes E46 was a couple of years older than mine and has the start of a tiny blister on the front wing so it is a known problem. Petrol or diesel? The problem is that the uneducated make decisions on which cars can enter city centres etc and modern diesels are very much tarred with the wrong brush. For a daily driver I think it would be hard to beat a good 430D/435D in its blend of relaxed driving, excellent performance and for the grunt, great mpg. They are also significantly cheaper now. However if I were in your shoes I would probably be looking at a 440i just because it is perceived to be a bit more environmentally friendly. The 2 litre petrols are not greatly better at mpg than the 6 cylinder and are no where near as involving on the engine front. Mrs Tim (she has a lot to say on the subject) has demanded it be petrol. John Clark in Dundee have a 440i Coupe so we'll go and have a look at that when they reopen although I doubt we'll buy it because a) I think they're a bit pricey and b) their service is shit. Michael, it doesn't have to be an estate, I have a plan to add a scabby 4x4 for winter/trips to the dump plus the campervan has a towhook and I can borrow a trailer if I really need to. Racing, I definitely want something to add a bit of spice to the commute, even if most of the time I'm in a queue of traffic doing 50. It was odd when I used the 370 because most days when I got onto the DC before the Tay Bridge the overtaking lane opened up as if I were Moses and I got a chance to extend it so even for those short bursts I want a car with a bit of grunt. |
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Post by johnc on May 29, 2020 16:18:03 GMT
I agree on the John Clark front - their prices have never been at the sharp end.
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Post by Blarno on May 29, 2020 16:30:59 GMT
I do have to question how they linked a misfire to the transfer box, given that the 2 are mutually exclusive.
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Post by Tim on Jun 1, 2020 9:32:51 GMT
It wasn't a misfire, rather that the symptoms felt a little like that.
I think what's actually happening is that the clutches inside the transfer box are slipping so you get a momentary hesitation under acceleration (but not all the time) similar to the feeling you get when there's a slight miss in the engine.
It can do it in 3rd but then not immediately after in 4th for example.
And all caused by slightly different tread depths front to rear. It's such a sensitive car!!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 1, 2020 9:37:40 GMT
It wasn't a misfire, rather that the symptoms felt a little like that. I think what's actually happening is that the clutches inside the transfer box are slipping so you get a momentary hesitation under acceleration (but not all the time) similar to the feeling you get when there's a slight miss in the engine. It can do it in 3rd but then not immediately after in 4th for example. And all caused by slightly different tread depths front to rear. It's such a sensitive car!! I don't know the history but from all you've said it sounds to me like your car has been in a fairly serious shunt at one time. |
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Post by Tim on Jun 1, 2020 9:54:41 GMT
I got it at 64k miles and 3 1/2 years old.
It's got a full BMW service history and there's been no mention anywhere of any evidence of it having had a crash. I had suspected it got hit either in the rear 3/4 or that the 2 offside doors had been replaced/repaired.
I'll admit to not being the most fastidious of car washers and it has spent long periods being dirty but that applies to all my cars and, while its clear I have a history with rusty BMWs they have all at least rusted in places where 'they all do that Sir'.
In contrast the 2003 Stilo I had from 2010 to 2014 was washed equally rarely, was often extremely dirty, got left unused for about 9 months in a tree filled garden and was sold on with some rust at the front of the bonnet (stone chips?) but nowhere else.
That's the best comparative car I can thing of.
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Post by michael on Jun 1, 2020 9:57:21 GMT
My D3 was rusting on on tailgate. I took it to BMW, full service history at the dealer and all that and they said it must have been caused by a stone chip which it clearly wasn't as the paint had bubbled but not split. I agree with you they're far from perfect but I do think yours has been abused.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 1, 2020 10:18:44 GMT
It wasn't a misfire, rather that the symptoms felt a little like that. I think what's actually happening is that the clutches inside the transfer box are slipping so you get a momentary hesitation under acceleration (but not all the time) similar to the feeling you get when there's a slight miss in the engine. It can do it in 3rd but then not immediately after in 4th for example. And all caused by slightly different tread depths front to rear. It's such a sensitive car!! A difference of more than 2mm front to back can cause these slight hesitations. I don't know if this applies in your case but I know several people have reported that this issue disappeared when they replaced the tyres all round with matching tread depths. |
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Post by Tim on Jun 1, 2020 10:28:12 GMT
It wasn't a misfire, rather that the symptoms felt a little like that. I think what's actually happening is that the clutches inside the transfer box are slipping so you get a momentary hesitation under acceleration (but not all the time) similar to the feeling you get when there's a slight miss in the engine. It can do it in 3rd but then not immediately after in 4th for example. And all caused by slightly different tread depths front to rear. It's such a sensitive car!! A difference of more than 2mm front to back can cause these slight hesitations. I don't know if this applies in your case but I know several people have reported that this issue disappeared when they replaced the tyres all round with matching tread depths. Yeah, I got it all looked at last year, even to the extent of it going to a BMW specialist in Aberdeen. They reset the codes and put new tyres on the back - the fronts were only a few thousand miles old - and it seemed to fix it but its been doing it again for a while. I'm damn sure I'm not paying £4,500 for a new transfer box on a car that's probably only worth £6k though, hopefully it'll soldier on until I replace it. Actually I think you looked up your handbook and said there's no mention of the need to keep all tyres within certain tread measurements. |
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 1, 2020 11:03:37 GMT
^
Swap the tyres front-to-back on same sides and see if that helps
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Post by Tim on Jun 1, 2020 11:12:29 GMT
^ Swap the tyres front-to-back on same sides and see if that helps They're staggered - 225/40x19 on the front and 255/35x19 on the back. |
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 1, 2020 11:35:54 GMT
Ah, that makes it a bit more difficult.... should they be staggered??
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 1, 2020 11:37:30 GMT
Ah, that makes it a bit more difficult.... should they be staggered?? Yeah, mine are staggered to. So was I when I saw the replacement cost. |
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Post by Roadsterstu on Jun 1, 2020 11:39:04 GMT
It wasn't a misfire, rather that the symptoms felt a little like that. I think what's actually happening is that the clutches inside the transfer box are slipping so you get a momentary hesitation under acceleration (but not all the time) similar to the feeling you get when there's a slight miss in the engine. It can do it in 3rd but then not immediately after in 4th for example. And all caused by slightly different tread depths front to rear. It's such a sensitive car!! A difference of more than 2mm front to back can cause these slight hesitations. I don't know if this applies in your case but I know several people have reported that this issue disappeared when they replaced the tyres all round with matching tread depths. Not a lot of people realise that these AWD systems are extremely sensitive to tyres with only very slight tread differences and it can cause significant early wear in the differentials. This is the issue I had with the V60 and I then read of numerous lowish mileage failures. The specialist I used to refurb the rear Haldex unit said it is absolutely down to tyres and the differences don't have to be very big at all to cause premature wear. |
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 1, 2020 14:10:46 GMT
^
That's the main reason I first suggested swapping tyres front-to-back, to even out or attempt to equalise any wear difference.
I do think that the AWD system must be pretty poor if it cannot readily cope with different rates of tyre wear, front-to-back, though
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Post by Tim on Jun 1, 2020 15:49:02 GMT
What I think is poorer (?) is that the potential of a wallet melting bill isn't more clearly highlighted by the manufacturer.
I take your point though Chris.
I assume that different brands of tyre may have a different rolling radius - the 2mm suggested by BMW doesn't give much scope at all.
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Post by Boxer6 on Jun 1, 2020 19:32:50 GMT
What I think is poorer (?) is that the potential of a wallet melting bill isn't more clearly highlighted by the manufacturer. I take your point though Chris. I assume that different brands of tyre may have a different rolling radius - the 2mm suggested by BMW doesn't give much scope at all. IIRC, the received wisdom re tyres rolling radius differences was about 4mm f/r and side to side. That seemed absolutely tiny to me, given the potential differences from wear rates etc. Bonkers. |
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