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Post by michael on May 27, 2020 8:44:45 GMT
Particularly the point about understanding that perception is sometimes being more important than truth. Very true, I saw the Conservatives were now only polling 8pts ahead of Labour.
Alex Massie isn't a fan of the Tories or Brexit.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 8:57:55 GMT
Well he's a Scot. They tend not to be.
But I thought the point was well made.
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Post by michael on May 27, 2020 9:01:05 GMT
I think it might also be a point missed. I'm increasingly of the view this is an opportunity to undermine the media and I think it's working.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 9:06:50 GMT
We shall see.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 11:19:19 GMT
Another interesting comment piece in The Times:
"Even in the depths of a nationwide two-month lockdown, there are small signs of life returning to a semblance of normality. The traffic rumbles past on main roads, it’s possible to get a delivery slot for online shopping, and the Tory party is once again hopelessly split.
This time it’s over the conduct of one man, Dominic Cummings, and his refusal to quit or admit wrongdoing after going on a really long drive when we were all meant to be staying at home— oh, and that trip to a beauty spot to test his eyesight. Only a British political scandal could turn on whether the accused did or did not pause to appreciate some bluebell woods.
Government ministers were sent out in triplicate to defend Cummings yesterday, with his old friend Michael Gove calling him “a man of integrity” and Robert Jenrick, the housing secretary, begging us to move on. Matt Hancock, the health secretary, said he believed the No 10 adviser’s actions were reasonable, but at least acknowledged that some people disagreed.
It should be stressed they were not alone. A loyal band of Conservative backbenchers tweeted their support and insisted it was time to draw a line under the matter.
But their valiant efforts were overshadowed by the wave of anger coming from MPs belonging to all sides of the party - new MPs in marginal seats, the 2010 and 2015 intakes and even the front bench, with the resignation of Douglas Ross, a junior Scotland minister, yesterday morning. He’s a professional football referee when he’s not in parliament, and presumably knows a foul when he sees one.
The sheer variety of those speaking out was a helpful exercise in remembering who’s in parliament these days. Jeremy Wright? Oh yes, he used to be the attorney-general. Mark Harper? He ran for party leader last year. Philip Davies? Yep, the shouty man who goes on about men’s rights was going full Fathers4Justice. All of human life was there.
The scale and strength of their disapproval is clearly a reflection of their (virtual) postbags, which are still heaving with outraged correspondence from constituents. One MP I quoted in Red Box yesterday predicted that far from damping down the row, Cummings’s press conference might actually make things worse. And she was spot-on.
YouGov polling shows the proportion of those who think he should resign is up 7 percentage points overall since Saturday, and up for every political persuasion — reaching 52 per cent among Leave voters. Seventy-one per cent now think he broke lockdown rules, which is a little tricky for Gove’s and Hancock’s insistence that “reasonable people will see he acted reasonably”.
Are they saying 71 per cent of people are unable to see clearly, and not the man with the unique take on optometrics? This could of course be correct but isn’t something you want to shout about as a politician.
This morning brings a fifth day of newspaper front pages dominated by the row, including this incredible effort from the Daily Star. When the Star gets political, you know any notion of this being a “Westminster bubble” story is well and truly shot.
Also worrying for the government is that it’s coming a cropper at those well-known political firebrands: retired teachers and vicars. First we had Robin Lees, the ex-chemistry teacher, whose photographic memory of number plates helped put Cummings at the scene near Barnard Castle. Yesterday it was the Rev Martin Poole from Brighton who floored Hancock with his demand that fines issued to people looking after children should be reversed.
It speaks to a certain exasperation that’s stalking even the most mild-mannered in the land at the moment. Even if we have not lost anyone close to us, we’re all tending a constant undercurrent of worry about our own health and vulnerable loved ones.
People have lost their jobs or are unsure about when they can return to work. Nobody’s done anything much fun for the last ten weeks. Some people have not seen any friends or family in that time. We are put out, miffed, cheesed off, fed up, and on top of all that, Cummings has got on our last nerve.
The goodwill which buoyed the government in an earlier stage of the crisis has started to wear thin, as we grow more and more weary of eating the same five meals and trying to understand what people are saying on Zoom.
Like most clichés, the British stiff upper lip and the Blitz spirit are tired myths which have some grounding in reality, and which have been revealed in individual and collective acts of sacrifice. But there’s a sharper side to them too, which can be swift and unforgiving towards anyone suspected of breaking rank or letting the side down.
People’s frustration with Cummings is being visited on the Conservatives, according to today’s arresting YouGov poll for The Times. Their lead over Labour has dropped nine points over the past week, the biggest slump in a decade.
The Tories got a boost in the depths of the crisis in mid-April when things were unremittingly bleak and Boris Johnson was in hospital, but have been on a downward trajectory since.
It’s no surprise the Tory MPs I spoke to last night sounded pretty glum. “Morale is low,” one texted, with others warning it could do real damage if allowed to fester. There is still the possibility, as Paul Goodman writes in The Times today, that Cummings could fall on his sword if it carries on like this. But shedding him also has its risks now, as it would make the prime minister look weak at the same time as depriving him of his chief adviser.
Against that backdrop, Johnson has two things on his side at the moment. He could get a boost if lockdown restrictions are further eased in a way that we can feel in our daily lives and the increase in deaths continues to get smaller.
The other is patience. When repeatedly confronted about tasteless remarks he’d made in the past during his leadership campaign, he refused to apologise and won by a mile. When he prorogued parliament, he was called all the names under the sun and slapped down by the Supreme Court. Advised by Cummings, he refused to back down and was rewarded with an 80-seat majority.
If he goes on toughing it out, there’s every chance that Cummings’s noisiest detractors will wear themselves out and he can continue as before. Yesterday’s Red Box poll showed 45 per cent of readers think it’s time to drop it, which I suspect can only go up.
Keep calm and carry on regardless of absolutely everything might not be exactly how the wartime slogan went, but it’s served Johnson pretty well so far."
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Post by michael on May 27, 2020 11:23:06 GMT
Only three weeks until that Brexit extension deadline. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 11:46:41 GMT
Only three weeks until that Brexit extension deadline. I wonder if that has anything to do with it? What, you think Boris cannot face that down without Cummings to stiffen his spine and ensure he thinks of England?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 27, 2020 11:55:34 GMT
The last three paragraphs are telling. Despite all the odds Boris keeps on winning. It's extraordinary.
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Post by michael on May 27, 2020 12:30:35 GMT
Only three weeks until that Brexit extension deadline. I wonder if that has anything to do with it? What, you think Boris cannot face that down without Cummings to stiffen his spine and ensure he thinks of England? I wasn't commenting on what Boris may or may not do but it seems the usual suspects are going for a scalp in the hope that they can revive the remain argument.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 12:43:21 GMT
The last three paragraphs are telling. Despite all the odds Boris keeps on winning. It's extraordinary. Aren't they just! That's what made me share the article.
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Post by PG on May 27, 2020 12:49:07 GMT
What, you think Boris cannot face that down without Cummings to stiffen his spine and ensure he thinks of England? I wasn't commenting on what Boris may or may not do but it seems the usual suspects are going for a scalp in the hope that they can revive the remain argument. In my view there is a large element of this in the media reaction to Cummings transgressions / caring for his child (delete as per your view). In the next three weeks there will be a tsunami of news from the expected sources "proving" that we must have an extension to the transition period. Expect large amounts of mud to get thrown. The remain press will be desperately seeking dirt on anyone and anything that can prove useful to their aim. Probably in about a week as Cummings fever dies down, all guns will move next to the economy and how it is so bad that no extension will be fatal etc.
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Post by michael on May 27, 2020 12:49:59 GMT
I've just seen that anti-porn filters prevent Cummings trending on Twitter.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 27, 2020 12:55:20 GMT
The last three paragraphs are telling. Despite all the odds Boris keeps on winning. It's extraordinary. Aren't they just! That's what made me share the article. He does defy logic a lot of the time. My brother declared "he's no Churchill!", alluding to the fact that it's claimed he thinks he's a new Churchill. As I pointed out, in 1940 no-on thought the Winston Churchill who took over from Chamberlain was going to be the Winston Churchill who delivered us through WW2 - he was seen as something of a failure and a liability, with a string of disasters behind him. However, few people wanted the job and even fewer wanted to continue the fight. I have no strong feelings either way on Boris but he's a liberal Tory so I cut him some slack as I generally like my Labour PMs to come from the right of the Party and Tory PMs to come from the left.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 12:58:51 GMT
What, you think Boris cannot face that down without Cummings to stiffen his spine and ensure he thinks of England? I wasn't commenting on what Boris may or may not do but it seems the usual suspects are going for a scalp in the hope that they can revive the remain argument. Perhaps they are, but I think plenty of other people are also going for his scalp and doing so without giving that particular angle even five seconds' thought. I think no-one can now credibly dismiss this as just a media-manufactured outrage fuelled by a hitherto improbable mix of Remainers and ERG members whom Cummings has offended. A substantial number of normal people (the sorts whose eyes glaze over instantly at the mention of Brexit or almost anything politics-related) seem genuinely narked by what has happened, or if not narked by his initial actions, then certainly narked by his sense of entitlement and lack of contrition. You can argue with that all you like, but I am simply reporting what I hear from friends, family and neighbours, and see on WhatsApp group chats and the like. In particular, my City WhatsApp group chat, which has an enormous number of members and must be at least 90% Tory (it certainly isn't usually given to Boris-bashing or discussion of the political, other than poking fun at Corbyn) has been having great fun pulling apart Cummings' story and sharing anti-Cummings memes. Importantly they aren't anti-Boris or anti-Tory, just anti-Cummings, who seems to have collectively given the majority of them the hump. That also, however, doesn't mean Cummings won't in fact still get away with it.
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Post by michael on May 27, 2020 13:17:06 GMT
I remember when Boris tried to get his deal through Parliament and was beaten back every single time. The press was filled with stories of humiliation, failure and the end of Brexit. I also remember how Dominic Cummings had seen that as a vital part of winning the election. Who knows if he'll get away with it.
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Post by Tim on May 27, 2020 13:36:03 GMT
Who knows if he'll get away with it. He might've got away with it if it wasn't for that pesky kid
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Post by chipbutty on May 27, 2020 13:59:48 GMT
Why is Boris so keen to protect DC ? - What is it about his brand of " advice " that makes him so completely indispensable ?
If he is as influential as it would appear, then this Covid debacle is all of his doing.
Even if you credit Boris with half of his alleged intelligence, how can he not have been reviewing the raw data and reams of professional opinion (that we plebs can access) and come the logical conclusion that he is not being given good quality direction.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 19:10:46 GMT
Why is Boris so keen to protect DC ? - What is it about his brand of " advice " that makes him so completely indispensable ? If he is as influential as it would appear, then this Covid debacle is all of his doing. Even if you credit Boris with half of his alleged intelligence, how can he not have been reviewing the raw data and reams of professional opinion (that we plebs can access) and come the logical conclusion that he is not being given good quality direction. All good questions to which I fear no answers are forthcoming, let alone good ones. I see Newsnight and Emily Maitlis have been rapped over the knuckles for being "impartial" during last night's programme. Now I did think it was pretty strong stuff when I watched it, but we both applauded it as a healthy dose of calling a spade a spade. Because what's going on at this point is frankly bad behaviour by the government, never mind Cummings, and deserves that sort of reporting. If we aren't allowed to call out bad behaviour by our overlords as being bad behaviour, then our democracy continues to be seriously eroded. Every now and then I think perhaps I'm being too harsh on Boris Johnson. But then he just commits yet another egregious piece of chicanery and my utter distaste for the man just re-asserts itself. He's just an out-and-out shyster.
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Post by michael on May 27, 2020 19:48:54 GMT
The Newsnight thing wasn’t impartial at all and the BBC decided it breached their rules.
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Post by Roadrunner on May 27, 2020 20:52:11 GMT
This is all over Twitter at the moment. You couldn't make it up!
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Post by Roadrunner on May 27, 2020 21:11:39 GMT
"We've driven to Barnard Castle by mistake. Are you the optician?"
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 27, 2020 21:12:25 GMT
The Newsnight thing wasn’t impartial at all and the BBC decided it breached their rules. Maitlis has been replaced on Newsnight. Surely if she has the courage of her convictions a resignation from the BBC is in order so she can ply her trade elsewhere, where impartiality is not required.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 21:28:22 GMT
The Newsnight thing wasn’t impartial at all and the BBC decided it breached their rules. I didn't find it impartial - I found it entirely justified and justifiable. And the BBC management is worried of having its funding cut by the Government, so ran scared.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 21:29:48 GMT
This is all over Twitter at the moment. You couldn't make it up! That's entirely brilliant.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 27, 2020 22:32:20 GMT
The Newsnight thing wasn’t impartial at all and the BBC decided it breached their rules. I didn't find it impartial You were one of the very few then.
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Post by racingteatray on May 27, 2020 22:36:53 GMT
I didn't find it impartial You were one of the very few then. Perhaps. Perhaps not. I’ll stick to expressing my own view rather than claiming to know the views of the majority on this point.
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Post by Alex on May 28, 2020 7:08:49 GMT
The Newsnight thing wasn’t impartial at all and the BBC decided it breached their rules. Maitlis has been replaced on Newsnight. Surely if she has the courage of her convictions a resignation from the BBC is in order so she can ply her trade elsewhere, where impartiality is not required. I believe that's exactly why James O'Brien quit. He was being pressured to leave LBC where he could express his actual opinion by the BBC who were worried it would breach their rules if he was allowed to have his radio show and remain on Newsnight. He can be annoying but I respect him for not cotowing to the BBC despite tv being supposedly the bigger gig.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 28, 2020 7:31:09 GMT
I wish the BBC had spent as much time investigating Jimmy Savile as they have done Dominic Cummings.
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Post by michael on May 28, 2020 8:03:07 GMT
The BBC have decided it didn't meet their editorial guidelines which means it must have gone quite a long way beyond what they usually accept. I can appreciate why those who subscribe to Maitlis's views can waive impartiality when it suits them, but the BBC should either be impartial or it shouldn't and if it shouldn't I shouldn't have to pay for it.
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Post by Tim on May 28, 2020 8:29:52 GMT
I saw what I hope is a genuine clip of Michael Gove being interviewed by Nick Ferrari on LBC, not somewhere I would expect a Tory Government minister to have a hard time.
When Ferrari asked him about driving 60 miles to merely check your eyesight Gove claimed he'd done that himself in the past and when challenged started waffling about how he was a shit driver and it took him 7 attempts to pass his test (so surely the man's a shoe-in for transport secretary at some point). Ferrari was clearly struggling not to laugh too much and at one point says something like "I can't wait to hear the answer to this one".
Even though he makes me feel uncomfortable I know Gove isn't an idiot but the blatant lying just to support a paid assistant was really piss poor from someone allegedly helping to run the country.
By senior ministers and the PM defending Cummings to the hilt all they appear to be doing is undermining the advice they have given, rightly or wrongly, to the great unwashed for weeks. How can they really expect to be listened to properly again on any issues that may come up in the future?
As I said earlier Cummings appears to have just fallen into the usual trap of thinking he's too important to do what he tells others, for a lot of years a common failing among our ruling classes and those around them.
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