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Post by Alex on Apr 17, 2020 18:45:10 GMT
Hospitality is really going to struggle to get back to even a semblance of where it was. Any business that relies on the public to willingly be in close quarters with one another (theatres, cinemas, sports venues etc) will struggle to get people to come back and sit next to each other.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 17, 2020 21:10:10 GMT
Hospitality, hotels, holiday/travel industry, airlines, restaurants, cinemas/theatres ........ all doomed IMHO for many years
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 18, 2020 13:52:21 GMT
A lot of travel and hospitality companies will fail after lockdown and the end of govt backed furlough payments because of the way they’ve retained customer money. Customers will swap travel company and / or hotel for next summer’s holiday just to spite them.
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Post by Alex on Apr 18, 2020 16:24:22 GMT
Most travel companies are offering transfers with no mention of refunds. We had a short easter break booked for this week with Hoseasons and the best they offered was a free transfer to the exact same date next year (you could also move it to any other time this year but would have to pay extra if there was a difference in the price) so we've just moved it to next year as the easter holidays fall on the same date. I'm not too bothered by that though as it was a black friday deal that was pretty cheap and at least we'll have something to look forward to next spring so long as there isn't another pandemic!
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Post by garry on Apr 19, 2020 6:58:28 GMT
A lot of travel and hospitality companies will fail after lockdown and the end of govt backed furlough payments because of the way they’ve retained customer money. Customers will swap travel company and / or hotel for next summer’s holiday just to spite them. This really resonates. We had a family holiday booked to Disneyland this summer. We’d paid a 10% deposit with the rest being due this week for a mid July departure. I called and asked if there was anything they could do - I wasn’t comfortable paying the rest of the money until the situation was a bit clearer. The options were 1. Cancel and lose the deposit. 2. Pay another £2k to change booking to next year. I feel like Virgin have nicked £1200 from me and they ain’t getting any more of my cash ever. There are also good example of how to retain customers. My kids go to a Judo club that’s paid by monthly subscription on a 6 month contract. Right at the start of the crisis the club owner sent a message saying he’d love to retain everyone, but he understood times might be tough for some so if they needed to stop paying for some months he’d fully understand and they’d be welcome back with open arms when things improved. He also started online classes and one-on-one virtual sessions in a bid to keep offering something to club members, even to those who couldn’t continue with monthly subscriptions. I’ve kept up the monthly subscriptions and I hope we see his business thrive post crisis.
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Post by chipbutty on Apr 19, 2020 7:20:00 GMT
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Post by Alex on Apr 19, 2020 7:53:55 GMT
The trouble with holidays is they are working on a 30 day basis so your mid July holiday wont be cancelled until June should travel restrictions still be in place or the park still closed. Therefore they'll argue that their contract terms still stand and you need to pay the balance ahead of your July holiday as there's every chance the park will be reopened by then. Fail to pay the balance now and you lose both your deposit and the holiday. I agree that Virgin's attitude is pretty shit in this instance and they should be allowing you the third option of keeping the holiday on hold until 30 days before travel, rather than demanding full payment now or ou lose your deposit.
My daughter has a school trip to Berlin in late June that has yet to be cancelled by the tour operator even though the school have stopped all overseas trips for the rest of the school year but we've been warned that they may struggle to secure refunds if travel to Germany is allowed come June and the facilities they'd booked were open for business. So I could be £600 out of pocket which stings a bit!
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Post by Martin on Apr 19, 2020 8:54:16 GMT
Our family holiday isn’t until mid August. Accommodation is 50% paid for, car 100%, park tickets 100% but just a £200 deposit on the flights. The flight balance needs to paid by the 13th June and the accommodation a week before we go. No idea what to do, but I can’t cancel now as I’d lose too much.
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Post by garry on Apr 19, 2020 9:06:08 GMT
Agree with much of that. The 510,000 figure in that link was from Neil Ferguson, who has a track record in hyperbole. (Foot and Mouth, SARS, MERS) and even he didn't claim this was additional deaths. But I guess a headline of "500,000 people to die, just like last year" wouldn't have people wetting their knickers quite as much. The other piece of research that's starting to gather momentum is that every antibody test is showing a significant higher proportion of the population have already has coronavirus that predicted. They are pointing to an under count of circa x85 in studies by Stanford, Dutch and Danish governments, etc. I think we'll start to see data emerge that shows the lockdown to be mostly a pointless exercise, but a media play that portrays the world as being saved by end this action.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 19, 2020 9:15:00 GMT
Gary, you can't get an ESTA to fly into the USA for the foreseeable future. This should be sufficient evidence for you to be entitled to a full refund of deposit. Having bought such an expensive trip, I hope you took out travel insurance at the time of booking, so won't your insurers help? esta.cbp.dhs.gov
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Post by garry on Apr 19, 2020 9:26:57 GMT
Gary, you can't get an ESTA to fly into the USA for the foreseeable future. This should be sufficient evidence for you to be entitled to a full refund of deposit. Having bought such an expensive trip, I hope you took out travel insurance at the time of booking, so won't your insurers help? esta.cbp.dhs.govAs Alex says, they're working on a 30 day basis so nothing is cancelled as yet. The issue is that I'd need to pay today and then be able to reclaim if the trip didn't happen. But who knows what the situation will be in three months. Perhaps they could fly us there, but theme parks will be closed or maybe we'd all have to spend a holiday in face masks. Perhaps Virgin holidays will go bust between me paying and the holiday. My decision is that it's better top walk away from £1200 than gamble with the rest of the money.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 19, 2020 10:34:53 GMT
Remind me never to use Virgin Holidays then! All to be paid 3 months before departure? When I book with BA, it's 6 weeks prior to departure, which even then I think is a bit much.
These are extraordinary times and they should be more flexible - they may not even be flying their planes in July
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Post by PG on Apr 19, 2020 12:32:38 GMT
The whole travel industry ponzi scheme is in real danger of crashing down. I don't know how they have managed to be allowed to keep the situation where they can take your money - first the deposit, maybe months before and usually all of it well before departure - before delivering anything. - and spend it on overheads and expansion rather than keeping it secure. Hence their desire to not give refunds - they simply don't have the cash. The fig leaf cover of ATOL / ABTA schemes can never cope with a situation like this.
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 19, 2020 17:49:13 GMT
Europcar refunded me as soon as I asked, even for a fixed price no refund rental. They sent a mail out telling members they would do this and their website is quite clear.
BA gave me a voucher the day after I applied. I had the option of money back but I always fly BA so no problem with a voucher.
Our summer holiday this year we just by chance decided on end August not mid July so here’s hoping.
What’s amused me is EasyJet’s optimism. Our flights to and from Murcia during May half term are still priced at £1,100+ for the family. Same dates to Alicante with BA is currently priced at £450. One airline accepts that it’s a bit of a fire-sale to Spain in May whereas one is hoping for BAU.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 20, 2020 7:46:45 GMT
What’s amused me is EasyJet’s optimism. Our flights to and from Murcia during May half term are still priced at £1,100+ for the family. Same dates to Alicante with BA is currently priced at £450. One airline accepts that it’s a bit of a fire-sale to Spain in May whereas one is hoping for BAU. Crikey. That's insane on the part of EJ. On the off-chance that we allowed to travel with quarantine by early July, we're aiming to skedaddle to the Aeolian Islands (where there has been no Covid so far) for 10 days. Some great friends of ours (London-based but she's from there) have a villa on Vulcano (where we've been many times before) and have said they are going to escape there just as soon as they can, and have invited us to join them when we can. But that's primarily because I also managed to pick up some BA Avios flights to Catania (unheard of) so (a) they cost buttons and (b) they are fully cancellable and refundable.
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Post by johnc on Apr 20, 2020 8:15:07 GMT
We are/were going to Florida with Virgin on 22 May. Everything was fully paid in February, so I am out by the cost of a small car at the moment. Virgin have emailed us a few times offering a voucher or a re-booking for any time up until next June. However before we can agree any dates for a holiday we need to know the dates of the exams for next year for our daughter and also what the arrangements are for her final term because this will be her last year in school and we don't want her to miss out. All a bit of a mess and the way I feel now, I would rather just have the money back.
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Post by PG on Apr 20, 2020 8:28:46 GMT
.... All a bit of a mess and the way I feel now, I would rather just have the money back. I'd definitely ask for my money back. You can't be sure they'll even be in business by next year.
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Post by johnc on Apr 20, 2020 8:40:38 GMT
.... All a bit of a mess and the way I feel now, I would rather just have the money back. I'd definitely ask for my money back. You can't be sure they'll even be in business by next year. Apparently we have no legal right to ask for the money back until they cancel our holiday but that should happen in the next few days according to my wife. She thinks it is 4 weeks before departure.
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Post by humphreythepug on Apr 20, 2020 8:41:04 GMT
Our Peru holiday over Easter was obviously not happening, I managed to get a full refund of £1750 for our BA flights with the help of a BA contact that I have, Peru rail have agreed to the full $316 refund (just waiting for that), Latam Airlines is an internal flight, which cost about £80 the people I booked through are working on a refund.
Machu Picchu are being arses with their refund conditions, wanting photographic proofs of credit card and passport which I'm not happy about sending over and I feel there is absolutely zero need for them to need these details, they are just doing it to be difficult, however it's only about £80.
Peru Hop coach company are holding our money but have given us 5 years to either rebook at no extra cost or we can transfer the tickets to someone else at no cost.
We hadn't paid for hotels so we've not lost anything there so overall the most I may lose is £160; Latam internal flight and Machu Picchu tickets.
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 20, 2020 10:08:55 GMT
I assume that there are a lot of families looking at the following scenario:
Schools are NOT going back after half term (ie the 1st June) European travel restrictions are reduced during June and early July Everyone buys out-of-school-holiday holidays / flights Kids are home schooled from a beach Parents WFH from a beach
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Post by chipbutty on Apr 20, 2020 11:19:31 GMT
Schools will have to go back before then unless lockdown remains.
Many parents cannot go back to work if there is no where to put the kiddies.
If lockdown has not been lifted by June, I can’t see any flights being allowed or most people willing to throw money on a holiday.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 20, 2020 11:30:37 GMT
I'd definitely ask for my money back. You can't be sure they'll even be in business by next year. Apparently we have no legal right to ask for the money back until they cancel our holiday but that should happen in the next few days according to my wife. She thinks it is 4 weeks before departure. Yes, something like that. My sister and her husband were supposed to be going on holiday in Pakistan shortly (as you do) and obviously now aren't, but they have had a nightmare trying to get Emirates to refund their flights. The advice to them apparently was also to wait until right before the flights depart at which point the airline has no option.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 20, 2020 11:31:36 GMT
If lockdown has not been lifted by June, I can’t see any flights being allowed or most people willing to throw money on a holiday. Given the furlough scheme has now been extended to cover all of June, I'm not expecting my office to reopen before then.
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 20, 2020 11:35:40 GMT
replying to Chip Butty:
Not necessarily. Teaching unions are already concerned about the talk of a return mid-May, this regardless of any move to open up other areas of the economy thus far seen in Europe (garden centres, smaller shops and markets are open whilst shops are closed). For instance we are allowed to travel to SK as W2.1 and the girls are citizens and I am married to one; anyone with a holiday home: if there are reduced travel restrictions implemented by the country where your holiday home is and flights are still flying out of London / whatever city you're near my scenario above is possible.
I agree for large numbers of society school needs to return to allow presence at a place of work but the only people I am aware of at my daughters' schools are those that work in the meejah as every other parent is working from home whilst their kids are learning online and running round the garden, in a critical service sector (so kids are going to school anyway) thus allowing form my scenario above.
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Post by ChrisM on Apr 20, 2020 12:23:51 GMT
I'd have though that by now, most people would have realised that any sort of holiday this year is a generally very bad idea, even if we are allowed to travel outside of the UK by August
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 20, 2020 12:58:56 GMT
I'd have though that by now, most people would have realised that any sort of holiday this year is a generally very bad idea, even if we are allowed to travel outside of the UK by August You're joking aren't you? Every weekend the parks and spaces of the country are filled at the first sign of the sun in the sky; social distancing in supermarkets is actually non-existent once you're past the entrance, the tube is still running and last Thursday Westminster bridge was rammed with hordes that were applauding public service workers. You're less likely to catch anything on a beach than being in lockdown.
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Post by johnc on Apr 20, 2020 13:33:35 GMT
Fingers crossed that our week in Marbella in October will be OK. At least I will get one holiday this year. I am frazzled just now, doing nothing but providing an information and help service to clients who either need reference numbers and assistance etc to make a claim for themselves or they need us to do it for them.
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Post by clunes on Apr 20, 2020 13:38:24 GMT
We are/were going to Florida with Virgin on 22 May. Everything was fully paid in February, so I am out by the cost of a small car at the moment. Virgin have emailed us a few times offering a voucher or a re-booking for any time up until next June. However before we can agree any dates for a holiday we need to know the dates of the exams for next year for our daughter and also what the arrangements are for her final term because this will be her last year in school and we don't want her to miss out. All a bit of a mess and the way I feel now, I would rather just have the money back. Fingers crossed for you and given current circumstance getting the money back is definitely the most important thing - a voucher will be worthless if the companies collapse and Virgin are definitely feeling this hard: www.bbc.com/news/business-52354865O
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Post by PetrolEd on Apr 20, 2020 15:08:03 GMT
I'd have though that by now, most people would have realised that any sort of holiday this year is a generally very bad idea, even if we are allowed to travel outside of the UK by August You're joking aren't you? Every weekend the parks and spaces of the country are filled at the first sign of the sun in the sky; social distancing in supermarkets is actually non-existent once you're past the entrance, the tube is still running and last Thursday Westminster bridge was rammed with hordes that were applauding public service workers. You're less likely to catch anything on a beach than being in lockdown. I wouldn't be keen spending much time on a plane now or in a few months, I always think of them as cesspits of disease.
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Post by Big Blue on Apr 20, 2020 16:16:52 GMT
I wouldn't be keen spending much time on a plane now or in a few months, I always think of them as cesspits of disease. I don't disagree but it's all perception of risk, willingness to take that risk etc. As soon as it's acceptable for me to get on the Drain every day it's acceptable for me to get on a 'plane. The air in an aeroplane's cabin is changed every 3-5 minutes (not all at once as there's a mix of fresh and re-circ) and it's filtered way beyond the fart-filled air in the average bedroom. As far as I can tell the air on the Drain is the same as that I breathed out when I first used the tube as a schoolboy in the '70s.
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