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Post by Tim on Mar 4, 2020 12:25:04 GMT
I've noticed that whenever I'm looking at the synopsis for a horror film on Netflix the phrase 'dark forces' appears very frequently. Well this has now spread to UK politics as these 'dark forces' are apparently now targeting the delightful Priti Patel and terrible and fictional events have occurred in each of her last 3 roles. Poor lady, I'm sure I match the mood of the country when I say that I hope, as is the norm for these types of film, she is the lone survivor among a cast of unheard of bit-part actors who are only there to be the deserving victims. Perhaps if things do turn against her she has a future career as a scream queen in some low budget, straight to DVD victim horrors
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Post by michael on Mar 4, 2020 12:29:18 GMT
She faces allegations but remains innocent until proven guilty. John Bercow on the other hand was found guilty of bullying and yet the same voices against Priti Patel were largely silent then, the hypocrisy and double standards are a disgrace.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 4, 2020 12:41:20 GMT
She faces allegations but remains innocent until proven guilty. John Bercow on the other hand was found guilty of bullying and yet the same voices against Priti Patel were largely silent then, the hypocrisy and double standards are a disgrace. Yes but John Bercow is a white male and Priti Patel is a woman, and worse than that, a woman of colour. It's rather sickening actually. To use a Trump term (and I hate doing so); the swamp needs draining.
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Post by PG on Mar 4, 2020 13:53:22 GMT
Similarly, if you criticise Meghan M or Diane Abbott, it's clearly racism. If you criticise Priti Patel it's completely allowed and even openly encouraged. Er, can somebody explain the rules again, they don't quite seem clear.
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Post by Tim on Mar 4, 2020 14:20:12 GMT
I agree that some sort of apparent witch hunt would be terrible but you all appear to be assuming she's innocent whereas I'm thinking that if there are enough allegations then maybe there's a slight chance they could be true.
Anyway I don't think its right that she's been put in this position. Her extra-curricular activities at DfID should've been a career-ender but presumably she has friends in high places?
If she does get found guilty then the swamp does need draining and no just of her.
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Post by michael on Mar 4, 2020 14:24:33 GMT
I agree that some sort of apparent witch hunt would be terrible but you all appear to be assuming she's innocent whereas I'm thinking that if there are enough allegations then maybe there's a slight chance they could be true. Because we believe that you're innocent until you're proven guilty?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 14:49:11 GMT
I agree that some sort of apparent witch hunt would be terrible but you all appear to be assuming she's innocent whereas I'm thinking that if there are enough allegations then maybe there's a slight chance they could be true. Anyway I don't think its right that she's been put in this position. Her extra-curricular activities at DfID should've been a career-ender but presumably she has friends in high places? If she does get found guilty then the swamp does need draining and no just of her. Or will she be the tories' Mandelson? - keep getting rid of it but back it comes..
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 4, 2020 14:50:29 GMT
I agree that some sort of apparent witch hunt would be terrible but you all appear to be assuming she's innocent whereas I'm thinking that if there are enough allegations then maybe there's a slight chance they could be true. Because we believe that you're innocent until you're proven guilty? It's amazing how this idea seems to have been forgotten latterly.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 4, 2020 14:51:47 GMT
....the hypocrisy and double standards are a disgrace. Aren't they just. For it's remarkable how some of the loudest defenders of the frankly completely ghastly Patel are among those who professed the most outrage about allegations of bullying by Bercow. All that drivel about how being tough on your staff isn't bullying....well it is apparently if Bercow does it but not if Patel does it. Pure partisan hypocrisy.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 4, 2020 14:53:06 GMT
I agree that some sort of apparent witch hunt would be terrible but you all appear to be assuming she's innocent whereas I'm thinking that if there are enough allegations then maybe there's a slight chance they could be true. Anyway I don't think its right that she's been put in this position. Her extra-curricular activities at DfID should've been a career-ender but presumably she has friends in high places? If she does get found guilty then the swamp does need draining and no just of her. Or will she be the tories' Mandelson? - keep getting rid of it but back it comes.. What an awful thought.
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Post by michael on Mar 4, 2020 15:21:29 GMT
....the hypocrisy and double standards are a disgrace. Aren't they just. For it's remarkable how some of the loudest defenders of the frankly completely ghastly Patel are among those who professed the most outrage about allegations of bullying by Bercow. All that drivel about how being tough on your staff isn't bullying....well it is apparently if Bercow does it but not if Patel does it. Pure partisan hypocrisy. Perhaps to keep things consistent Priti Patel could chair a debate on the alleged bullying just as Bercow did?
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Post by Tim on Mar 4, 2020 15:50:06 GMT
I suppose time will tell. I only started the thread because I was amused by the 'dark forces' allegation, what with me choosing not to watch alleged horror films with that in the description.
There are no dark forces at work here, merely two sides trying to gain the upper hand on each other.
As far as Priti Patel is concerned I haven't been impressed with her but then I haven't looked closely to see her record beyond reports of incorrect procedure around meetings with vested interests in Israel a few years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 16:10:55 GMT
Basically she should never have needed to be told that was a bad idea. She does however come across as not giving a solitary for procedure or anything other than how SHE is rewarded. I know they are all like that to an extent but she goes the extra mile. Not someone I like to see in any government position apart from office cleaner.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 4, 2020 19:16:27 GMT
Aren't they just. For it's remarkable how some of the loudest defenders of the frankly completely ghastly Patel are among those who professed the most outrage about allegations of bullying by Bercow. All that drivel about how being tough on your staff isn't bullying....well it is apparently if Bercow does it but not if Patel does it. Pure partisan hypocrisy. Perhaps to keep things consistent Priti Patel could chair a debate on the alleged bullying just as Bercow did? That might make compulsive viewing! I doubt she'd get through it without some form of self-incriminating behaviour. I was at a government-sponsored breakfast event this morning where the topic came up in conversation around the table I was sat at as we waited for the speaker, and the man sat next to me remarked that his wife had first hand experience of just how unpleasant Patel could be. I know you are generally pro-Tory but surely you can admit that some of the current crop of ministers are just plain dreadful and she stands out as one of the most dreadful of the lot. This isn't a partisan thing - after all I am no leftwinger and there are dreadful people in the Labour party and the LibDems too, never mind UKIP etc.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 4, 2020 20:19:38 GMT
It was always acknowledged that Yes Minister was far closer to the truth than we could ever have imagined. It’s really coming to a head now with the Sir Humphreys protecting their fiefdoms.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 5, 2020 9:14:53 GMT
Of course, and there has been plenty of negative press about that and Rutnam not being easy either.
But what’s notable here is:
(a) that there are also press reports of unpleasant behaviour by Patel at both her prior departments; and
(b) I’ve been personally told on at least four separate occasions by different people in or with links to the civil service that she is a particular nightmare to work with.
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Post by Tim on Mar 5, 2020 9:30:17 GMT
I read yesterday that she's not particularly well liked among many of her colleagues either. Having said that I'm sure if someone did an anonymous poll around the office many of my colleagues would say something similar about me. Fuck them though, eh?
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2020 9:59:06 GMT
I know you are generally pro-Tory but surely you can admit that some of the current crop of ministers are just plain dreadful and she stands out as one of the most dreadful of the lot. This isn't a partisan thing - after all I am no leftwinger and there are dreadful people in the Labour party and the LibDems too, never mind UKIP etc. It's probably fair to say that I am generally pro-Tory... As for PP I believe in fairness and she's innocent until proven otherwise. I don't believe this matter is as clear-cut as it is being presented but in terms of politicians you're right there are dreadful people from all parties.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 5, 2020 11:59:02 GMT
She's not innocent. Not a snowflake's chance in hell.
The evidence against her is at least as strong as it was for Bercow and I don't recall him being offered the benefit of the doubt by the Tory party and its apologists.
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Post by johnc on Mar 5, 2020 12:24:47 GMT
I have no first hand knowledge of PP but can't help feeling that there is no smoke without fire. However what winds me up more than anything is the amount of time and effort that different factions exert, to discredit other people they don't like: to that end, they are all bullies and no better than delinquent children. They should grow up and come together to do what they are paid for - Governing the country in the best interests of the whole population, regardless of their own petty infighting.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Mar 5, 2020 12:25:01 GMT
She's not innocent. Not a snowflake's chance in hell. The evidence against her is at least as strong as it was for Bercow and I don't recall him being offered the benefit of the doubt by the Tory party and its apologists. You desperately want this to be true but there's no evidence and those who have worked for her previously are coming out and saying it's nonsense and she was great boss to work for. You're just buying the narrative being pedalled to you and I really can't understand your love for the odious Bercow.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 5, 2020 17:42:41 GMT
The first time I heard that Patel was a nightmare to work for was a good six months ago well before any of this blew up. My wife was talking to a recently retired civil servant at a social event and the topic somehow came up. So, given the order of events, and the fact that it's been independently confirmed to me on at least three other occasions in private settings means that yes I am disposed to believe it.
And given that I dislike her publicly-stated politics immensely, yes I very much hope this dispatches her permanently smirking form firmly into the long grass where she belongs.
Where did you get the idea I love Bercow? I didn't bring him up - Michael did in a classic kneejerk defend and counterattack. I don't have any love for the odious Bercow either, who is indeed odious. I admired the way he stood up to the Government's attempts to strongarm Parliament over Brexit but that doesn't mean I don't think he's a vainglorious puffed-up angry little man.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2020 18:17:05 GMT
And given that I dislike her publicly-stated politics immensely, yes I very much hope this dispatches her permanently smirking form firmly into the long grass where she belongs. I'm disappointed to see justice being dished out on the grounds she's the wrong sort of person to belong in the office she holds.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 5, 2020 19:15:08 GMT
And given that I dislike her publicly-stated politics immensely, yes I very much hope this dispatches her permanently smirking form firmly into the long grass where she belongs. I'm disappointed to see justice being dished out on the grounds she's the wrong sort of person to belong in the office she holds. Her overly right-wing politics and her apparent authoritarian tendencies make her "the wrong sort of person" to be in the Cabinet in my view, let alone holder of one of the high offices of State. I would say the same about Jeremy Corbyn, just substituting the word "left" for "right" and the words "his" and "him" for "her", were he to be in Cabinet. I trust you are not making any offensive inferences that I might think she is the wrong sort of person for any other reason.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2020 19:28:53 GMT
You made it quite clear why you think she is the wrong sort of person. The thing is, like Brexit I suppose, she has the backing of the voters. So in another classic demonstration of fairness I can accept that is why she is where she is. She remains innocent until proven otherwise.
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Post by michael on Mar 5, 2020 19:39:58 GMT
I very much hope this dispatches her permanently smirking form. I do think she suffers what is commonly know as ‘resting bitch face’. There’s something I never thought I’d write in a defence!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 19:40:22 GMT
If I may add, there have been complaints from all three cabinet positions and a senior civil servant not only quit but is suing the department. This would suggest there is more than smoke and mirrors to the scenario being played out. Having worked in an environment where clicques are common place the conduct of that person is nothing new and just as indefensible as any other misuse of power. Remember he attitude to responsibility is skewed in her own favour far more than most to the point where she tried to put one over on her own prime minister making negotiations with a foreign leader without the knowledge of the leader or cabinet.
The longer she is in any kind of politics, the more time she has to fuck things up. Perhaps she could join some of our locals and create a commune on Rockall. Pritti please.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 5, 2020 19:54:56 GMT
Ah the good old tyranny of the majority. As with Brexit, I just don't give a stuff whether she has the backing of voters, nor am I required to give a stuff. The mainstream view is perfectly capable of being unpleasant and/or wrong (as it has been at various times in various countries throughout history) and, for the time being at least, it is mercifully still lawful in this country to hold and express a differing view, however unpopular that may be. She won't be the first (nor the last) person to be democratically elected and subsequently prove to be pretty horrid.
We shall see what happens, but it's striking that she is facing allegations of bullying from officials not just at the Home Office, but also at the Department for International Development and the Department for Work and Pensions, so that's, as Tim points out in his original post, all three of the ministries where she has most recently worked.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 20:39:56 GMT
Wondering wth that comes from but I have the bonus of not taking it seriously so that's a bonus.
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Post by racingteatray on Mar 5, 2020 21:39:39 GMT
I very much hope this dispatches her permanently smirking form. I do think she suffers what is commonly know as ‘resting bitch face’. There’s something I never thought I’d write in a defence! Never heard that phrase before!
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