|
Post by johnc on Jan 28, 2020 10:20:06 GMT
We must be way ahead of the curve up here near the Clyde. We were using windcatchers on my Dad's boat to travel all the way up the west coast of Scotland 40 years ago and they really work. I don't know who had the idea first but there were lots of other people who did the same! I bet it was called Dignity wasn't it? No Dignity was only a dinghy. We used to tow one of them behind us.
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Jan 28, 2020 10:22:26 GMT
That really is a bit of overkill. All our District nurses have Nissan Leaves (I presume the plural applies to cars as well)
|
|
|
Post by michael on Jan 28, 2020 11:35:06 GMT
Nissan Leaves - are we back on Brexit?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 11:54:01 GMT
I think the topic has moved to Saracens.
|
|
|
Post by grampa on Jan 30, 2020 13:47:35 GMT
I would think the power required to shift a ferry would need more than a few days of turning turbines even if the ferry was festooned with them - a bit like the people who put a solar charger or small wind turbine on a leisure boat - you may be able to run some cabin lights from it, but you can forget about moving the boat with the amount of 'juice' they generate. (There are a few specially designed boats that move under solar power, but they are basically a floating solar panel and don't move very fast) I'm thinking outside the box here and I've no idea if this sort of thing is in development but what if the ferry or ship or whatever had some vertical structures and attached to these were some high tech fabric configurations - we could call them windcatchers for want of a better word? The windcatchers could trap fast moving air as it passed over the ship and translate this (don't know how the actual physics work) into lateral movement. By adjusting the vertical structures and the windcatchers a ship would be able to travel across oceans using completely renewable energy at zero emissions. Probably a pie in the sky idea that would never work but worth a thought? Wouldn't be practical with a car ferry, but it does illustrate the irony of people trying to solar power leisure boats! Having said that a lot of boaters (about half) don't want all the work that goes with those wind catching contraptions.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 30, 2020 14:10:18 GMT
I'm thinking outside the box here and I've no idea if this sort of thing is in development but what if the ferry or ship or whatever had some vertical structures and attached to these were some high tech fabric configurations - we could call them windcatchers for want of a better word? The windcatchers could trap fast moving air as it passed over the ship and translate this (don't know how the actual physics work) into lateral movement. By adjusting the vertical structures and the windcatchers a ship would be able to travel across oceans using completely renewable energy at zero emissions. Probably a pie in the sky idea that would never work but worth a thought? Wouldn't be practical with a car ferry, but it does illustrate the irony of people trying to solar power leisure boats! Having said that a lot of boaters (about half) don't want all the work that goes with those wind catching contraptions. Au contraire: www.euronews.com/living/2019/05/22/the-shipping-industry-may-finally-be-turning-to-wind-powerPeople all over are nicking my idea. www.euronews.com/living/2019/05/22/the-shipping-industry-may-finally-be-turning-to-wind-powerStill prefer windcatchers personally.
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Feb 3, 2020 20:27:06 GMT
My parents are on holiday in South Africa for a couple of months and I get regular updates, mainly car related. Most interesting was the Porsche engineers staying at one hotels who were apparently really interesting to talk to and happy to give my dad a good look around their 992. Anyway...back to electric cars.
Their latest stop is in Graaf Reinet and we’re chatting to the General Manager who was very proud that he now has an electric car charging point, which turned out to be a single car Jaguar charger. Apparently there is a circuitous route from Cape Town to Joburg, which Jaguar have installed chargers every 200 miles or so. Apparently it’s a 1,000 mile journey.
Doesn't sound like a great investment, especially where most towns they’ve stayed at have ‘load balancing’ several days a week, which is a couple of hours with all the power switched off! I wonder if they did an event there, as I can’t believe they will sell many electric cars in SA.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Feb 3, 2020 21:01:26 GMT
Maybe the answer's so simple it's been staring us in the face; longer flexes. The longer the journey, the longer the flex - no charging worries. Be realistic. Overhead cables and a pantograph is the way forward. You joke but go back 50 odd years and we had networks of trolley buses in a number of towns and they're still used across the world. Much cheaper and less disruptive than building a tram network. Regarding range on electric cars, I think the issue is time to charge rather than charging itself. It would make much more sense to have a design of battery that can be quickly removed and replaced. If manufacturers could agree and a set type/shape (like the AA battery but for cars) we could use the space left behind in filling stations when they get rid of their fuel tanks to have banks of batteries that are being charged. You could pay different amounts depending on how much charge a battery has.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Feb 3, 2020 22:28:45 GMT
Tesla have shown solution that does this very trick by removing the battery pack from below the car and slotting in a new one.
|
|
|
Post by Roadsterstu on Feb 3, 2020 23:09:31 GMT
And Ofgem wants 10 million EVs on the roads by 2030. I wonder how much load balancing we will need...
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on Feb 3, 2020 23:16:57 GMT
... and what about the effects of not having to manufacture internal combustion engines any more?
Less foundries, less steel/iron/aluminium being produced (this may provide the extra power generation capacity to recharge all those batteries), less machine tools as pistons, crankshafts, camshafts etc no longer need to be manufactured, massed unemployment worldwide of those responsible for making the engines and associated ancillaries etc etc.
Has anyone looked at the overall picture? Electric motors are far simpler to make than piston engines, and a majority of the work can be done using fully automated machinery
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 4, 2020 8:50:46 GMT
And Ofgem wants 10 million EVs on the roads by 2030. I wonder how much load balancing we will need... Not much really. Most cars will be charged overnight when demand is at its lowest. As renewables like windfarms produce more and more of our electricity one of the problems we'll have is how to store the power they are generating through the night (obviously, the wind doesn't stop blowing at night) so a network of plugged in car batteries would be ideal. Similarly nuclear power is produced continuously so that needs to be stored somewhere as well. Smart chargers will be employed so that all the cars will not start charging the moment they are plugged in, they'll be phased through the night. So if you get home and plug your car in at 6pm it may then only be charged between 2am and 4am. Your neighbour's car may be charged between 12 midnight and 2am, the guy's across the road 10pm and midnight. You'll have an override button to press if you need the car charged immediately as you'll be going back out. I can't see the move to EVs producing mass unemployment of engine builders as so much of the process is automated anyway. As one technology dies another replaces it as has always been the way.
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Feb 4, 2020 12:08:12 GMT
As I look out of my office at the very nice 1930's 3 story flats across the road and the approximately 100 cars parked outside (and about another 50 cars on this side of the street), there will need to be a massive infrastructure investment just to provide chargers for those cars. Multiply that out across the country and I just can't see how it can be done within the timescale proposed. The local authority can't even fix all the potholes, dropped drains and mancovers and putting the charging structure in place would be a massively larger job.
There are also serious social issues to consider. At the moment almost anyone can go and buy a car for £1,000/£1,500 and if they wanted to, travel from one end of the country to the other. Electric cars are on a whole different level of expensive and when they get old and worth very little, the battery will be down near 50% capacity - this then becomes a problem because those with money can buy/lease/rent a new electric car and perhaps (in a few years) get a genuine 300+ mile range whereas the guy on minimum wage won't be able to get anything that takes him more than 75 miles.
Serious intervention is needed now if electric cars are going to have common charging ports and possibly interchangeable batteries otherwise, in 10 years time, the whole thing is going to be one huge mess.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 4, 2020 12:22:14 GMT
As I look out of my office at the very nice 1930's 3 story flats across the road and the approximately 100 cars parked outside (and about another 50 cars on this side of the street), there will need to be a massive infrastructure investment just to provide chargers for those cars. Multiply that out across the country and I just can't see how it can be done within the timescale proposed. The local authority can't even fix all the potholes, dropped drains and mancovers and putting the charging structure in place would be a massively larger job. There are also serious social issues to consider. At the moment almost anyone can go and buy a car for £1,000/£1,500 and if they wanted to, travel from one end of the country to the other. Electric cars are on a whole different level of expensive and when they get old and worth very little, the battery will be down near 50% capacity - this then becomes a problem because those with money can buy/lease/rent a new electric car and perhaps (in a few years) get a genuine 300+ mile range whereas the guy on minimum wage won't be able to get anything that takes him more than 75 miles. Serious intervention is needed now if electric cars are going to have common charging ports and possibly interchangeable batteries otherwise, in 10 years time, the whole thing is going to be one huge mess. One word: Hydrogen. Solves all those problems.
|
|
|
Post by Roadsterstu on Feb 4, 2020 13:16:38 GMT
I wonder why we are not pursuing Hydrogen with the same veracity as Electric, though?
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Feb 4, 2020 13:49:56 GMT
I wonder why we are not pursuing Hydrogen with the same veracity as Electric, though? Possibly, allegedly and all other weasel words, some Politicians/big hitters are heavily invested in the mines that produce the rare metals needed for batteries. It does seem that the electric bandwagon arrived only recently with great speed and momentum whereas previously it had been trundling along much more sedately. Maybe electric cars which are all connected, tracked and speed controlled will allow the full introduction of road pricing at £1/mile. Kerching!
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 4, 2020 13:55:30 GMT
I wonder why we are not pursuing Hydrogen with the same veracity as Electric, though? I think it's because electric is the short term knee jerk reaction and hydrogen is the longer term solution. Toyota and the Japanese are pursuing hydrogen, as are the train manufacturers. There's a lot more being done with hydrogen than what's in the headlines.
|
|
|
Post by PG on Feb 4, 2020 14:11:53 GMT
Whilst hydrogen makes more sense in a lot of ways (especially ease of refuelling) I've read a few articles that say its achilles heel is the worse efficiency of its production and use v charging a battery with the same amount of electricity. Which means that it won't really become viable until either a more efficient means of production is found or fuel-cell efficiency hugely improves. But those things are being researched and I guess the big crunch point will be who gets the big jump to commercial reality first - either a new battery technology that is hugely more dense and faster to charge; or a more efficient way to generate hydrogen.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 4, 2020 14:13:48 GMT
Whilst hydrogen makes more sense in a lot of ways (especially ease of refuelling) I've read a few articles that say its achilles heel is the worse efficiency of its production and use v charging a battery with the same amount of electricity. Which means that it won't really become viable until either a more efficient means of production is found or fuel-cell efficiency hugely improves. But those things are being researched and I guess the big crunch point will be who gets the big jump to commercial reality first - either a new battery technology that is hugely more dense and faster to charge; or a more efficient way to generate hydrogen. Yes, if they use hydrogen as a storage medium for surplus renewable energy (as opposed to parked up electric cars) then they'll be good to go.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Feb 4, 2020 14:55:42 GMT
I met a colleague of my other half who announced she was into cars having got an electric car. That would be a Tesla Model X which appealed as it had 4 ISO fix seats (they're Catholic). Apparently they also got Tesla solar and a home battery so only charge it at home and they're barely noticing the cost.
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Feb 4, 2020 15:09:36 GMT
One of my clients who put money down on a Taycan has cancelled his order and bought a Tesla S 100D (with the biggest battery) instead. He has read everything he can and reckons the Tesla will do a real world 280/300 miles on a full charge whereas the Taycan is about 180 miles and given his use, the extra range is quite important. He also thinks it won't quite shout at customers the way a Porsche would.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Feb 4, 2020 15:31:21 GMT
Apparently they also got Tesla solar and a home battery so only charge it at home and they're barely noticing the cost. Apart from the £1k/month (I have no idea what the real cost is) to lease the car in the first place?
|
|
|
Post by johnc on Feb 5, 2020 12:16:30 GMT
Apparently they also got Tesla solar and a home battery so only charge it at home and they're barely noticing the cost. Apart from the £1k/month (I have no idea what the real cost is) to lease the car in the first place? But that's when the man maths needs to be applied - £1000 lease cost less cost of petrol per month saved £250 less savings in servicing £75/mth = £675/mth less smug feeling, worth £100/mth less quodos with green clients £200/mth less no city centre emission charges £100 = £275/mth. It's nearly free!
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Feb 5, 2020 13:02:21 GMT
Apart from the £1k/month (I have no idea what the real cost is) to lease the car in the first place? But that's when the man maths needs to be applied - £1000 lease cost less cost of petrol per month saved £250 less savings in servicing £75/mth = £675/mth less smug feeling, worth £100/mth less quodos with green clients £200/mth less no city centre emission charges £100 = £275/mth. It's nearly free! Quality man maths!!
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Feb 5, 2020 16:23:56 GMT
But that's when the man maths needs to be applied - £1000 lease cost less cost of petrol per month saved £250 less savings in servicing £75/mth = £675/mth less smug feeling, worth £100/mth less quodos with green clients £200/mth less no city centre emission charges £100 = £275/mth. It's nearly free! Quality man maths!! Hmmm, I would never waste man-maths on an electric car!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 19:42:17 GMT
I'd say about 50% of the cars in my town are parked on the street. How are they going to fix that? Will everyone have to pay for a kerbside charger to be installed outside their house? What happens if someone else parks in your spot?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 20:46:45 GMT
It will be the new credit card fraud.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 5, 2020 21:04:44 GMT
I'd say about 50% of the cars in my town are parked on the street. How are they going to fix that? Will everyone have to pay for a kerbside charger to be installed outside their house? What happens if someone else parks in your spot? I’m guessing each lamppost could have 3 or 4 outlets fitted and people would plug into them. Your car would report to the supplier how much power you’ve drawn and you’d be billed accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on Feb 6, 2020 9:04:37 GMT
How will the Health & Safety brigade allow all these trip hazzards of cables draped across pavements?
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 6, 2020 9:26:12 GMT
How will the Health & Safety brigade allow all these trip hazzards of cables draped across pavements? I suppose they could be coiled.
|
|