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Post by bryan on Oct 17, 2019 9:37:30 GMT
It took me over 2hours on the bus to get to my hotel at Kensington because they blocked Victoria station and the Central line on Tuesday evening - Grrr
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Post by Tim on Oct 17, 2019 9:52:58 GMT
I'd be more impressed if XR were glueing themselves to anything from Amazon, Google etc because those tossers are using ever more sophisticated technology to sell people crap they don't need and then ship to them at ever increasing speeds. How much new pollution is that causing? Once that's been addressed then we can have a closer look at the existing pollutants but lets stop adding new ones first.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 17, 2019 11:23:38 GMT
Seems legit:
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Post by Tim on Oct 17, 2019 11:25:35 GMT
Hold on, that can't be acceptable - it has a chimney!
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 17, 2019 14:24:14 GMT
It took me over 2hours on the bus to get to my hotel at Kensington because they blocked Victoria station and the Central line on Tuesday evening - Grrr Other tube lines do exist. I haven't so much as clapped an eye on a protestor all week despite my office being on Cheapside.
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Post by chipbutty on Oct 17, 2019 18:59:35 GMT
Ahhh
The 8.15 kick in the balls
Right on time đ
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 22:04:08 GMT
?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 18, 2019 5:19:22 GMT
Ahhh The 8.15 kick in the balls Right on time đ I saw that. Brilliant.
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Post by bryan on Oct 18, 2019 6:05:44 GMT
Had I not changed plans to come home I was booked into stay at the excel centre on Wednesday night and would have travelled through (or not!)canning town about 0700
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Post by johnc on Oct 18, 2019 6:51:51 GMT
Extremism, even when it is well intentioned, is never going to end well for the perpetrators if it messes with people's lives and their ability to make a living and look after their families.
Just like the protesters in Hong Kong, they aren't going to win by continuing to cause mayhem: the forces massed against them are just going to increase. They have to back off and then try to talk about making changes and it might take a very long time.
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Post by PetrolEd on Oct 18, 2019 8:39:39 GMT
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Post by Tim on Oct 18, 2019 8:47:35 GMT
Some reasonable points made in that article.
I didn't realise XR were well funded. If they want to take things to the next level then they need to bring themselves into society properly. Perhaps they could set up a political party to try to influence on a wider scale. They could call themselves, for example, the Green Party.
Idiots.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 18, 2019 8:51:02 GMT
Some reasonable points made in that article. I didn't realise XR were well funded. If they want to take things to the next level then they need to bring themselves into society properly. Perhaps they could set up a political party to try to influence on a wider scale. They could call themselves, for example, the Green Party. Idiots. As always; follow the money.
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Post by Alex on Oct 18, 2019 9:13:38 GMT
Some reasonable points made in that article. I didn't realise XR were well funded. If they want to take things to the next level then they need to bring themselves into society properly. Perhaps they could set up a political party to try to influence on a wider scale. They could call themselves, for example, the Green Party. Idiots. The Green Party must be really shit politicians to only have one MP at a time when climate change and plastic pollution have never been higher on the agenda.
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Post by johnc on Oct 18, 2019 9:24:21 GMT
The Green Party must be really shit politicians to only have one MP at a time when climate change and plastic pollution have never been higher on the agenda. I agree but there is a real problem to overcome. When you are comfortable and have enough money to last you, it is easy to think about the environment and what needs to change to improve it. When you are scraping a living on the other hand and someone wants to take away your car or double the price of fuel or make it more expensive to heat your already cold house, things much closer to home are much more important. People have concerns about green issues but they have bigger concerns about keeping a roof over their heads and feeding their families. It's not without reason that the only Green MP was elected in Brighton.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 18, 2019 9:39:26 GMT
I sometimes wonder if the generations like me that grew up through the Cold War, Mutual Assured Destruction, imminent nuclear destruction, Protect & Survive etc have a certain degree of fatalism "baked in" - "what will be will be, we're only a button push away from armageddon, we're lucky to have survived this far", making it difficult to get on board with a possible climate emergency. Anyone under about 35 hasn't had that, they've grown up in a world where nuclear war was part of ancient history, not their future and climate change is the first thing that threatens their cosy lives. They're bound to freak out - you only have to see the panic when they can't get a wifi signal.
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Post by Tim on Oct 18, 2019 9:56:40 GMT
Just had a chat with one of our fund managers about a new client. They have insisted that their portfolio must NOT have any oil stocks in it. He's not going to ask them any questions beyond that but he was wondering how they feel about retailers (using fuel to fly goods around the world and deliver them to shops).
I asked him what the client's views on such as Diageo might be, i.e. are they content to be invested in a company that provides the source product for binge drinking.
Apparently the client's 20 something kids are 'into' XR.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 10:22:01 GMT
You need waders for the amount of horse shit contained in that article. I couldn't read more than a few paragraphs. I will never darken the door of the Metro website again when they're happy to publish that sort of fucking nonsense.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 18, 2019 12:24:10 GMT
That is a very silly piece.
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Post by Roadrunner on Oct 18, 2019 13:12:53 GMT
The above discounts the possibility that the land in question could still be absorbing CO2. It isn't automatically going to be covered in tarmac. And it's simple physics that producing food via another animal is less efficient than consuming what grows in the first place. In physics, there's no such thing as a free lunch, no matter what it might be. One or two of the links above do suggest that you can find something on the internet to support whatever view you hold, and it'll even look kosher (if that's not the wrong term, given the subject).
Veganism does seem to be the new preachy. As in just about all such debates, it is all about finding the right balance. Much of the land grazed by livestock in the UK is completely unsuitable for any cropping other than the the natural grass and vegetation. If that were to be left un-grazed the natural vegetation would become old and therefore greatly reduced in its ability to sequester CO2. Take this place as an example: No sheep are grazing on the left of the fence. The area to the right of the fence is grazed and therefore is a lush, green carbon sink. We can't eat the grass, but can enjoy the meat and wool which is grown from that grass. Some lowland farms could be changed from mixed or livestock farming to completely arable or veg growing, but the natural fertiliser previously supplied from the backsides of the cattle and sheep would have to be replaced by artificial nitrate and phosphate fertiliser, the manufacture of which has a significant carbon footprint. The real answer is, as much as possible, to eat locally produced meat, grown on an extensive grass-based system and to be sure that whatever else you eat has not been flown in from a far corner of the world. The vegan, protesting about meat and milk, while eating soya and almond based products flown in from South America is a much a hypocrite as many on the XR band wagon. Everyone needs to work together to find sustainable and locally produced food supply for all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 14:25:28 GMT
Obviously I concede that I have no idea how representative that example is, though I doubt that too many cows inhabit fields like that one!
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Post by Roadrunner on Oct 18, 2019 14:43:34 GMT
Obviously I concede that I have no idea how representative that example is, though I doubt that too many cows inhabit fields like that one! Indeed, that is very much sheep country!
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 18, 2019 16:33:49 GMT
The real answer is, as much as possible, to eat locally produced meat, grown on an extensive grass-based system and to be sure that whatever else you eat has not been flown in from a far corner of the world. The vegan, protesting about meat and milk, while eating soya and almond based products flown in from South America is a much a hypocrite as many on the XR band wagon. Everyone needs to work together to find sustainable and locally produced food supply for all. Yes, but we should also eat less meat as well as locally produced meat (and fish, fruit and veg). Everything in moderation. A balanced diet matches our omnivore biology and is therefore better for our health as well as the environment.
Both my wife and I love red meat and would never give it up, but we maybe eat it twice a week and more likely in a restaurant than at home. That's not deliberate though - it's just the way we are, possibly because we try to eat only a light meal in the evening during the week. Chatting to colleagues I was quite shocked to discover how many eat red meat pretty much seven days a week. Whereas, thinking back to last week, I cooked myself a steak (British) on Tuesday night because I felt like one and then I had grouse (Scottish) in a restaurant on Friday night, but apart from that, don't think I had any meat barring some chicken one lunchtime in a burrito.
At home in the evening, we often just have some sort of salad or other dish which isn't deliberately vegetarian but which nevertheless could happily be eaten by a vegetarian. Or fish, which we are both keen on. I'm always surprised how, for an island nation, we don't seem terribly fond of fish unless smothered in batter and served with chips.
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Post by ChrisM on Oct 18, 2019 16:53:02 GMT
^ There were some demonstrations in Berlin by Excretion Rebellion when I was there, but fortunately they did not interfere with the plans of the group I was with. I passed this camp on the bus tour, which I think is theirs, about 1km from the Reichstag Building IIRC
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Post by Roadrunner on Oct 18, 2019 16:53:38 GMT
The real answer is, as much as possible, to eat locally produced meat, grown on an extensive grass-based system and to be sure that whatever else you eat has not been flown in from a far corner of the world. The vegan, protesting about meat and milk, while eating soya and almond based products flown in from South America is a much a hypocrite as many on the XR band wagon. Everyone needs to work together to find sustainable and locally produced food supply for all. Yes, but we should also eat less meat as well as locally produced meat (and fish, fruit and veg). Everything in moderation. A balanced diet matches our omnivore biology and is therefore better for our health as well as the environment.
Both my wife and I love red meat and would never give it up, but we maybe eat it twice a week and more likely in a restaurant than at home. That's not deliberate though - it's just the way we are, possibly because we try to eat only a light meal in the evening during the week. Chatting to colleagues I was quite shocked to discover how many eat red meat pretty much seven days a week. Whereas, thinking back to last week, I cooked myself a steak (British) on Tuesday night because I felt like one and then I had grouse (Scottish) in a restaurant on Friday night, but apart from that, don't think I had any meat barring some chicken one lunchtime in a burrito.
At home in the evening, we often just have some sort of salad or other dish which isn't deliberately vegetarian but which nevertheless could happily be eaten by a vegetarian. Or fish, which we are both keen on. I'm always surprised how, for an island nation, we don't seem terribly fond of fish unless smothered in batter and served with chips.
Yes, I agree with much of that and our diet at home sounds similar, but with the addition of the compulsory Sunday roast. Herself is a (non-preaching) veggie, so we regularly make a veggie pasta sauce or mushroom risotto. 99% of the meat and veg comes from our local butcher and greengrocer and is grown in the surrounding fields.
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Post by humphreythepug on Oct 18, 2019 16:58:53 GMT
Red meat, Tina doesn't touch it, she generally just isn't a meat eater apart from chicken; pork, beef and lamb is a no no, she will eat sausages and bacon occasionally but we hardly have it, as for myself I only really eat it, if out for a meal or if I am eating alone at home one night, usually in the form of a burger. The last steak I had was 2 weeks ago and before that it would have been months ago.
Our meals together are generally either chicken or non meat based, we probably could go full on veggie and wouldn't find it a huge hardship, however I would miss my chicken curries and the odd meat dish.
I don't worry about my meat consumption as I don't eat a great deal of it, it's my alcohol consumption that I should worry about; hic!!
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Post by johnc on Oct 18, 2019 17:05:00 GMT
for an island nation, we don't seem terribly fond of fish unless smothered in batter and served with chips.
My wife hates fish (for some unfathomable reason) so my daughter and I have fish 9 out of 10 times when we are out for a meal (nearly always not battered). We also have salmon whenever my wife is out for a night. We used to have fish at least twice a week when I was growing up but that did fall away when the prices increased dramatically (no idea if that was market forces or some EC intervention) I don't eat much red meat at all. Once a week at most and more likely once every fortnight but I eat a moderate amount of chicken and plenty of veggy pasta and rice dishes which my daughter conjures up. Cereal, fruit and nuts make up a decent proportion of what I consume too.
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Post by racingteatray on Oct 18, 2019 17:10:35 GMT
I sometimes think it's just what you were used to as a child. Both my wife and I are originally from coastal areas so we had lots of fish and seafood growing up.
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Post by Roadrunner on Oct 18, 2019 17:42:00 GMT
We are fortunate to have a proper fishmonger within walking distance, so fish is frequently on the menu, although it does break my locally-sourced rule.
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Post by PG on Oct 21, 2019 8:15:56 GMT
Yes, the old cliche is as true as ever. Moderation in all things, including moderation itself at times. Despite being livestock producers - beef and sheep - we don't eat meat every day and when we do, we buy British grass fed extensive beef or lamb as much as we can. We hardly have any of our own in the freezer - we sell it all.
Generally, we'd all be better off if we did eat less but much better quality food in general. Bread and games has been replaced by cheap food and TV / music / video entertainment.
I'd ask people who eat a great deal of chicken instead of red meat, to seriously look at the welfare conditions of the chicken that they consume. High welfare chicken in expensive. "Low" (meeting standards but certainly very intensive) welfare chicken, produced in massive factory sheds are not great for the chicken or the environment. I think M&S is the only supermarket (so far) that onl;y has higher welfare chicken.
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