|
Post by johnc on Oct 30, 2019 13:26:33 GMT
He doesn't need to win a majority, he needs to win enough to form a coalition which may not include the Lib Dems but the SNP, Green, PC and a few floating independents may well be up for. The risk of a Corbyn government is a real one. I don't think he'll get enough to form a coalition unless it was with both the Lib Dems and SNP at which point his most extreme policies will surely be removed. Can't really see it happening. I have heard that the deal between Labour and the SNP is already in place - SNP support for Corbyn in a minority Government in exchange for no blocking of a second Scottish independence referendum. I don't think there is much support in the Liberals for supporting Corbyn and with a Scottish leader who wants to remain in the UK, I think there would be even less stomach to join that type of coalition. However politicians change their minds more often than I change socks so there are no guarantees. The Tories need a really strong leader in Scotland to muster the anti independence vote but I think they have something of a mouse which is likely to mean the loss of all/most of their Scottish MPs.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 30, 2019 13:33:09 GMT
I suppose the interesting thing is that even in the event of a Scottish referendum producing a Yes vote the result can be totally ignored.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 13:36:39 GMT
is really all about protecting the cosy union closed shop - across all staff from Unite to the GMC - that is not in patients' best interests at all. You forget the BMA, which opposed the creation of the NHS, who have milked the system more than any union since the NHS was established.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 13:38:39 GMT
I suppose the interesting thing is that even in the event of a Scottish referendum producing a Yes vote the result can be totally ignored. I can't imagine we'd play hard-ball in the same way the EU have, for example insisting Scotland settles its divorce bill before discussing any further details.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 30, 2019 13:40:37 GMT
I suppose the interesting thing is that even in the event of a Scottish referendum producing a Yes vote the result can be totally ignored. Quite. Additionally if the timing goes per the SNPs suggestion (during 2020) we could vote to leave and then immediately change government in the Scottish Parliament elections in May 2021, the same prospect as at the last indie ref.
|
|
|
Post by PG on Oct 30, 2019 13:55:06 GMT
You forget the BMA, which opposed the creation of the NHS, who have milked the system more than any union since the NHS was established. You're right. I meant the BMA when I wrote GMC. Got confused who the doctors' trade union is and who is the registering body.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 14:09:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 14:13:54 GMT
He doesn't need to win a majority, he needs to win enough to form a coalition which may not include the Lib Dems but the SNP, Green, PC and a few floating independents may well be up for. The risk of a Corbyn government is a real one. To do the full monty Socialist number he wants, he'd need a majority and a comfortable one to boot.
A coalition won't cut it.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 14:15:05 GMT
I don't understand why reform equals the US model. The US is a massive outlier, we'd be better moving to the model of a typical European country.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 30, 2019 14:17:41 GMT
Well slimy little Matt Hancock said this morning that drug prices won't rise so that's good enough for me I presume the unnamed officials who discussed this without permission will be currently getting reprimanded...
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 14:18:47 GMT
I don't understand why reform equals the US model. The US is a massive outlier, we'd be better moving to the model of a typical European country. Neither do I, and I agree.
But some in (or advising) the Tory party appear to want that sweetheart trade with Trump at all costs, and they seems quite happy to offer the NHS up as a sacrificial lamb. Given that they have shown themselves to be entirely untrustworthy, I am not going to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I shall be loudly encouraging all others not to do so either.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 30, 2019 14:19:02 GMT
I don't understand why reform equals the US model. The US is a massive outlier, we'd be better moving to the model of a typical European country. While that might be good I think the implication is that a trade deal with the US will effectively take the choice out of our hands. We already use plenty of US (and other countries) companies to provide sections of support within the NHS .
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 14:22:53 GMT
It wouldn't affect the model of health offered in anyway. It might only affect arbitration in terms of competition for services. Then again those services might only be competitive were they cheaper so I'm not sure how that's a loss.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 30, 2019 14:25:08 GMT
It wouldn't affect the model of health offered in anyway. It might only affect arbitration in terms of competition for services. Then again those services might only be competitive were they cheaper so I'm not sure how that's a loss. Fair enough. I think everyone probably agrees the NHS needs a proper review but sadly the ones we've had for the last 20-30 years don't appear to have helped or have been carried out by bodies with an interest. It'd be interesting to let a group from industry, i.e. NOT politicians, civil servants or anybody already involved in healthcare, loose on it to see what they could come up with
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 14:25:33 GMT
It wouldn't affect the model of health offered in anyway. It might only affect arbitration in terms of competition for services. Then again those services might only be competitive were they cheaper so I'm not sure how that's a loss. That's an interesting assertion that goes against most received wisdom. On what do you base it?
And if it is so "nothing to see here", why is the US pharmaceutical and medical industry so extremely keen to gain significantly less regulated access?
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 14:27:31 GMT
A reasonable understanding of how the health system works. The Government controls the model of provision, a trade deal wouldn't stipulate that the NHS must become a private service -that's not how they work.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 30, 2019 14:28:36 GMT
Over here as an employee private healthcare will cost you about £900 a year. In the US, when I looked at an internal move over there, it was $900 a MONTH. Oh that's not too bad then- I pay more than that in NI each month (by the time you factor in Employer's NI contributions as well).
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 14:36:52 GMT
The Government controls the model of provision, a trade deal wouldn't stipulate that the NHS must become a private service -that's not how they work. Indeed, "controls" is the operative word. The Government is free to do whatever trade deal it wants, and I think it is nothing short of burying your head in the sand if you think that we will benefit from any resulting changes to the NHS from a US-friendly trade deal (which will be the only sort on offer).
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 14:41:45 GMT
Over here as an employee private healthcare will cost you about £900 a year. In the US, when I looked at an internal move over there, it was $900 a MONTH. Oh that's not too bad then- I pay more than that in NI each month (by the time you factor in Employer's NI contributions as well). Americans have a payroll-deducted social security tax too - it's levied at 7.65% of income up to an annual income cap of around US$130k, with a matched employer contribution.
By contrast, we pay:
Less than £8,632 - 0% £8,632-£50,000 - 12% More than £50,000 - 2%
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 14:44:23 GMT
The Government controls the model of provision, a trade deal wouldn't stipulate that the NHS must become a private service -that's not how they work. Indeed, "controls" is the operative word. The Government is free to do whatever trade deal it wants, and I think it is nothing short of burying your head in the sand if you think that we will benefit from any resulting changes to the NHS from a US-friendly trade deal (which will be the only sort on offer). I think the idea of the NHS being converted to a US style privatised system is a touch paranoid.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 15:12:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Blarno on Oct 30, 2019 16:33:54 GMT
I honestly think this is the first time in 20 years that I won't even bother my arse. Not one of them offers me anything and I'm of the opinion that if they even have one policy that you disagree with, why should you have to vote for them? If that's the case, you're simply voting for the prick who offends you the least.
Boris couldn't run a bath.
Corbyn will be hounded out of office quicker than he gets in.
I didn't even realise the Libs were still a thing.
No clue why SNP are an option.
And as for Farage, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. I wouldn't trust him to open a tin of beans that was already open.
I may as well draw a massive cock and balls on the ballot paper and be done with it.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 30, 2019 16:41:34 GMT
SNP are only an option for those of us north of the border (same as, say, the DUP but with slightly less stone-age views) but they have 35 MPs at the moment so are currently the 3rd largest party in Westminster.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 16:46:49 GMT
Boris couldn't run a bath. Just because you've reminded me of it, apparently, according to that faux-Edwardian bell-end Jacob Rees-Smug, one should refer to drawing a bath, rather than running one!!
He chastised another MP for that alleged error in the Commons the other day.
For the record I suspect Boris couldn't draw a bath either, in any sense of the word "draw"...
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 17:59:31 GMT
They said that Boris wouldn't get the WAB reopened but he did so perhaps he's more capable than the image he projects? I'll accept he's the best of a bad bunch but the reason I do is a genuine fear of a Corbyn government. I'm astonished how many people are able to overlook his obvious anti-Semitism and general unfitness for office.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 18:09:29 GMT
He got it reopened but to no more than cosmetic effect when all is said and done. One suspects he just asked the EU to chuck him a bone, any bone, so they did. And he only got it through by throwing the DUP under the nearest bus once they ceased to be required to form a majority.
Who is overlooking Corbyn's many deficiencies? Nobody I know. But I dispute your assertion that Boris is the best of the bad bunch.
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on Oct 30, 2019 18:21:26 GMT
Up here in the NE, there are so many that see Corbyn as the next Messiah as they hate the Tories so much. I am quite scared of a Corbyn government. One guy I was speaking to who supports him claims he won't implement the hard left. I think he's deluded if he thinks he won't try.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 30, 2019 18:58:00 GMT
He got it reopened but to no more than cosmetic effect when all is said and done. One suspects he just asked the EU to chuck him a bone, any bone, so they did. And he only got it through by throwing the DUP under the nearest bus once they ceased to be required to form a majority. Who is overlooking Corbyn's many deficiencies? Nobody I know. But I dispute your assertion that Boris is the best of the bad bunch. I think the WAB is as good as it's going to get. Plenty of people are willing to put a vote against Corbyn. I'm not sure who you think is the best of the bad bunch!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 19:04:19 GMT
Why do people think a deal with the US means a privatised nhs? Getting back to a national HEALTH service is something we badly need. Pandering to idiots that want plastic surgery to look like Marge from that tv show etc is far from health. Also, proper management of financial resources and efficient buying of consumables etc is a must.
Subsidised elements of what is now nhs funded plastic surgery on the private market sounds ok in my book.
Corbyn in the top seat would be a reason to seriously think about jumping ship.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on Oct 30, 2019 23:11:26 GMT
He got it reopened but to no more than cosmetic effect when all is said and done. One suspects he just asked the EU to chuck him a bone, any bone, so they did. And he only got it through by throwing the DUP under the nearest bus once they ceased to be required to form a majority. Who is overlooking Corbyn's many deficiencies? Nobody I know. But I dispute your assertion that Boris is the best of the bad bunch. I think the WAB is as good as it's going to get. Plenty of people are willing to put a vote against Corbyn. I'm not sure who you think is the best of the bad bunch! Not Boris. Man’s unfit, period.
|
|