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Post by michael on Sept 24, 2019 14:16:01 GMT
So, how will you vote?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 14:57:13 GMT
There is a very nasty bruise developing on my forehead right now and the next election will probaly be the last time I vote for any of the.............
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Post by Roadsterstu on Sept 24, 2019 15:49:13 GMT
There's only one way, really. It's shit but not nearly as shit as the alternatives, one of which is really, really shit and the other is really, really, really, fucking shit.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 24, 2019 15:59:47 GMT
Yes, indeed and for me that's the Liberal Democrats. Even it is a bit with my nose held.
I wouldn't vote for either Corbyn or Johnson if they were the only party on the ballot sheet. And defenestrating Boris wouldn't fix it for me on the Tory front - Gove, Raab, Patel, Leadsom, Javid etc are all alarmingly awful as well.
I don't trust either the Tories or Labour. In each case, I heartily dislike most of the policies I would expect them to adhere to and do not remotely trust them to deliver on any of the ones that sound attractive.
Greens? No way - loopier version of Labour Brexit - obviously not. UKIP - as above Change or whatever they call themselves - useless. Sadly there is no sensible centre-right non-Brexiteer party of the sort that would naturally attract my vote.
Monster Raving Loony party?
It's tempting for once.
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Post by michael on Sept 24, 2019 16:00:43 GMT
A vote for Lib Dem is effectively a vote for Corbyn in Number 10.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 24, 2019 16:03:54 GMT
A vote for Lib Dem is effectively a vote for Corbyn in Number 10. That's absolute rot and you know it. Unless the Tories really have brainwashed you.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 24, 2019 16:05:05 GMT
Is a third reminder of the parliamentary arithmetic needed?
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Post by michael on Sept 24, 2019 16:09:06 GMT
It depends where you are of course but if you divide the tory vote you give Labour a seat. For me that's not a risk I'd take unless you'd prefer Corbyn?
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 24, 2019 16:18:57 GMT
It depends whether you think the next election is going to be fought on a traditional "right vs left" basis or on a new "brexit vs remain" basis.
Everything is currently pointing towards the latter.
In Remain areas, both the Tories and Labour are haemorrhaging seats to the Lib Dems. The Greens also nab votes from Labour among younger remain-leaning lefties.
In Brexit areas, the only threat to the Tories is from the Brexit Party hence Boris' decision to go for broke on the Brexit vote. By contrast, Labour is threatened by both the Tories and the BP.
In Scotland and Wales, Labour is liable to get a pasting from the SNP and Plaid.
So no I don't see a hard left Labour government as a genuine threat.
Might we get a left-of-centre coalition? Sure, but that is virtually guaranteed to come with Mr Corbyn's head and policies on a plate as its sacrificial lambs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 16:40:27 GMT
Well, for obvious reasons Limp Damp Wets are a hard sell unless you are a remainer. But you are of course which gives you that extra bit of wriggle room. For the rest of us the choice is one, sadly the MRP do not cover enough seats or I would be with you on that front. We might even get genuine change then.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 24, 2019 16:47:03 GMT
Yes, sadly it looks like they only contested 16 seats in 2015:
◾Howling Laud – Uxbridge and South Ruislip ◾Baron Von Thunderclap – Mid Sussex ◾Johnny Disco – Wythenshawe and Sale East ◾Peter E. Hill – Louth and Horncastle ◾Nick the Flying Brick – Doncaster North ◾Nicholas Robert Blunderbuss Green – Kenilworth and Southam ◾The Dame Dixon – Hove and Portslade ◾Mad Max Bobetsky – North East Hampshire ◾Mark Beech – Aldridge and Brownhills ◾Ann Kelly, The Mid Bed Minx – Mid Bedfordshire ◾Baron Barnes Von Claptrap – Gower, South Wales. ◾Mad Hatter – Oxford East ◾Mad Mike Young – Sittingbourne and Sheppey ◾Hairy Knorm Davidson – Faversham and Mid Kent ◾Baron Von Magpie – Islwyn ◾George Ridgeon – Gloucester
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 17:24:47 GMT
Are you up for standing (Alright, sitting)? I might even have a go myself then........
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 24, 2019 17:48:45 GMT
Sadly I suspect it would be career-limiting to stand for any political party, so no!
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Post by johnc on Sept 24, 2019 17:52:42 GMT
In my constituency, the seat is held by the Lib Dems. The SNP lost the seat at Mrs Mays GE when their vote fell significantly on the threat of a 2nd Scottish referendum, Labour's vote evaporated and the Tories had about half the votes of the SNP and a third of those for the Lib Dems.
A vote for the Tories or Labour in my constituency is a wasted vote other than to make a point. I think in reality a lot would vote for the Tories but at the risk of the SNP getting the seat so there are large swathes of voters who vote for Jo Swinson to keep others out rather than because that is where their convictions lie.
I am sure there are several hundred similar seats across the country. The FPTP system does not result in the fairest result and tends to lead to periods of one party domination followed by a swing to the other end of the spectrum and another period of alternative domination. Maybe we would be better at negotiating if we had PR and had to consider the wishes of others and compromise.
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Post by Tim on Sept 25, 2019 9:41:32 GMT
In my current constituency, the seat is held by the Lib Dems........ FYP Mine is SNP but only by 2 votes! I'm pretty sure that the Tories up here are going to get humped in the next GE as well unless they make some spectacular promises that, if Boris is still the leader, may not be believeable anyway!
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 25, 2019 10:05:04 GMT
My local constituency is Chelsea & Fulham, which is of course historically of the truest blue. Although our Tory MP's majority was halved to 8,000 in 2017....with the Labour Party's splendidly named Alan De'Ath in second place, I doubt he is in real danger of losing unless there is a big increase on the previous turn-out of 66%.
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 25, 2019 13:42:28 GMT
This is an interesting development:
"The Lib Dems would vote for a Brexit deal brought to Parliament by Boris Johnson if it is tied to a fresh referendum, MP Layla Moran told the BBC’s Politics Live programme.
She said: “If that deal was tied to a ratification referendum with the option to remain then we would support it. If he wants to bring that to us now, we’re there.”"
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Post by johnc on Sept 25, 2019 14:55:38 GMT
This is an interesting development: " The Lib Dems would vote for a Brexit deal brought to Parliament by Boris Johnson if it is tied to a fresh referendum, MP Layla Moran told the BBC’s Politics Live programme.
She said: “If that deal was tied to a ratification referendum with the option to remain then we would support it. If he wants to bring that to us now, we’re there.”" That sounds pretty fair to me and no-one can say they didn't know what they were voting for.
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 25, 2019 14:58:53 GMT
Stuck between Lib dems and the Tories
I want to remain in the EU therefore I should be a LD supporter but I'm not a LD guy. Should I support them in the hope they don't ruin the country with their left policies. That's left to me before everyone gets excited. I'm a reduce taxes voter. I'm not interested in global warming issues as a whole, sort out plastics, don't burn down the rainforest and I'm good. I think Immigration is fine where we are and don't want to open the borders to everyone Not convinced about class C drugs becoming legal I want to drive a gas guzzler, I think their transport policy the stuff of fiction. Any Green policies I fear s a way of taxing people rather then making any meaningful contribution to the world around us.
Apart from that however, what could go wrong.
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Post by michael on Sept 25, 2019 15:00:52 GMT
Does remain exist in the way it did?
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 25, 2019 15:04:59 GMT
This is an interesting development: " The Lib Dems would vote for a Brexit deal brought to Parliament by Boris Johnson if it is tied to a fresh referendum, MP Layla Moran told the BBC’s Politics Live programme.
She said: “If that deal was tied to a ratification referendum with the option to remain then we would support it. If he wants to bring that to us now, we’re there.”" Yes I'm onboard. No way will it help in any negotiation with the EU but a shit deal is the plan for the LD
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Post by johnc on Sept 25, 2019 15:24:04 GMT
Stuck between Lib dems and the Tories I want to remain in the EU therefore I should be a LD supporter but I'm not a LD guy. Should I support them in the hope they don't ruin the country with their left policies. That's left to me before everyone gets excited. I'm a reduce taxes voter. I'm not interested in global warming issues as a whole, sort out plastics, don't burn down the rainforest and I'm good. I think Immigration is fine where we are and don't want to open the borders to everyone Not convinced about class C drugs becoming legal I want to drive a gas guzzler, I think their transport policy the stuff of fiction. Any Green policies I fear s a way of taxing people rather then making any meaningful contribution to the world around us. Apart from that however, what could go wrong. I'm with you on all of that. Hobson's choice: Would Sir like shit on a stick or a stick with your shit?
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Post by Martin on Sept 25, 2019 15:55:52 GMT
Stuck between Lib dems and the Tories I want to remain in the EU therefore I should be a LD supporter but I'm not a LD guy. Should I support them in the hope they don't ruin the country with their left policies. That's left to me before everyone gets excited. I'm a reduce taxes voter. I'm not interested in global warming issues as a whole, sort out plastics, don't burn down the rainforest and I'm good. I think Immigration is fine where we are and don't want to open the borders to everyone Not convinced about class C drugs becoming legal I want to drive a gas guzzler, I think their transport policy the stuff of fiction. Any Green policies I fear s a way of taxing people rather then making any meaningful contribution to the world around us. Apart from that however, what could go wrong. I'm with you on all of that. Hobson's choice: Would Sir like shit on a stick or a stick with your shit? I'd vote for you Ed!
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 25, 2019 16:00:13 GMT
I'm with you on all of that. Hobson's choice: Would Sir like shit on a stick or a stick with your shit? I'd vote for you Ed! As an appreciation of your loyalty Martin I shall make you minister for transport
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Post by Tim on Sept 25, 2019 16:05:03 GMT
Ooh, can I have a job as well?
I like Ed's proposal - every time I pick up a car mag I get depressed at the wall to wall coverage of electric cars that hold no interest to me and it makes me feel like the demise of petrol/diesel is weeks away!!
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Post by Martin on Sept 25, 2019 16:05:29 GMT
As an appreciation of your loyalty Martin I shall make you minister for transport Thanks Ed!
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Post by johnc on Sept 25, 2019 16:14:24 GMT
I reckon that a party with those policies would have a real chance at the next GE.
I'll send my CV for Chancellor of the Exchequer. How big is the second house allowance? (Just showing i'm fully qualified for the position by asking the right questions)
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Post by racingteatray on Sept 25, 2019 16:33:55 GMT
Stuck between Lib dems and the Tories I want to remain in the EU therefore I should be a LD supporter but I'm not a LD guy. You me both. Should I support them in the hope they don't ruin the country with their left policies. Indeed. That's left to me before everyone gets excited. AgreedI'm a reduce taxes voter. Not so much but I'd like to get rid of the bit where you lose your personal allowance as that gives me an marginal rate on a portion of my income of over 60%. And current Stamp Duty rules are daft (although that was a Tory policy!)I'm not interested in global warming issues as a whole, sort out plastics, don't burn down the rainforest and I'm good. You and I differ a bit here. But then I studied Environmental Biology for my undergrad degree 20+ years ago when it wasn't cool, so that's perhaps no surprise. But on the other hand, I am a pragmatist that believes in carrots rather than sticks.I think Immigration is fine where we are and don't want to open the borders to everyone Agreed. Not convinced about class C drugs becoming legal Agreed - they aren't as safe as people make out in my personal experience.I want to drive a gas guzzler, I think their transport policy the stuff of fiction. Half-agree - I do reluctantly accept that we are time-limitedAny Green policies I fear s a way of taxing people rather then making any meaningful contribution to the world around us. Not agreedApart from that however, what could go wrong. See thoughts above.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 16:46:13 GMT
Can I get defence? I won't blow too much shit up. The doors have to go tho'......
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 25, 2019 20:24:14 GMT
Ok so far we have Martin - transport John - chancellor Tim- housing - you always seem to be moving or doing up a house Jonny- environment Mike - defence PG - agriculture
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