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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 17, 2019 10:12:59 GMT
Oh well as long as the EU isn't as bad as Stalin's Russia that's OK then. How easy it is to stand by and watch democracy die as long as it doesn't interfere with one's comfortable life. Oh come off it. I seriously doubt you genuinely think democracy in the UK is at risk of dying as a result of the EU such that in our lifetimes we will end up in an EU equivalent of Stalin’s Russia! Do you think democracy in the UK and wider EU is in good health? I believe Godwin's Law applies to bringing Stalin into internet debate as much as Hitler.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 10:30:08 GMT
"3. Telling people whom you disagree with to leave the country is not in the slightest bit democratic - rather it is pure majoritarianism (and frankly I think many Brexiteers mistake that separate concept for democracy)".
Simply stating that those who want to live in the eu know where it is and can go live there if they want, not saying folk are not entitled to their opinions either. We voted to leave, something that was guaranteed prior to the referendum. Cameron and his team made the whole thing simple, leave or stay. NO mention of a deal and no talk about another referendum if the result was not to our liking. Cameron lost and ran away, a coward no less. His leaving was a direct cause of the crap that followed. Stave Bannon is just one character in a cast of many on all parts of the political mess and should be sidelined rather than promoted.
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Post by Tim on May 17, 2019 10:41:12 GMT
Far right? As in Nazi far right? As in Fascism? Do me a favour. I didn't say that. I was more thinking of it in a UK politics context, in that he'll be somewhere way to the right of the Tory right wing. The news organisation he set up has certainly given a platform to a lot of the right wing conspiracy theorist types though. Didn't Alex Jones come out of that?
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Post by Big Blue on May 17, 2019 11:50:18 GMT
Why are Nazis associated with “right wing” and not anything else?
The ethos was about nationalism and social responsibility to their perceived way of life in Germany at a time when they thought it was awry. That’s pretty much the position of the Left at the moment.
Asking for a friend.
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Post by scouse on May 17, 2019 12:06:29 GMT
Why are Nazis associated with “right wing” and not anything else? The ethos was about nationalism and social responsibility to their perceived way of life in Germany at a time when they thought it was awry. That’s pretty much the position of the Left at the moment. Asking for a friend. After WW2, those left wingers who supported Socialism and Communism realised that they had no hope of drumming up support for their cause if people matched National Socialism with Socialism, so got their useful idiots in the press and acadamia to push Nazi = Right Wing.
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Post by racingteatray on May 17, 2019 12:28:34 GMT
I'm more worried about George Soros' influence than Steve Bannon's. And Steve Bannon is Far Right? Give over. To the first point, why? To the second point, where would you place Steve Bannon on the political spectrum?
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Post by racingteatray on May 17, 2019 12:30:39 GMT
Oh come off it. I seriously doubt you genuinely think democracy in the UK is at risk of dying as a result of the EU such that in our lifetimes we will end up in an EU equivalent of Stalin’s Russia! Do you think democracy in the UK and wider EU is in good health? I believe Godwin's Law applies to bringing Stalin into internet debate as much as Hitler. I think Brexit and Salvini, PiS and Orban, among other things, show that it is, yes. If the EU really was the democratic desert it's made out to be, none of the foregoing would be possible.
The EU couldn't stop the referendum happening, they couldn't stop the British electorate voting to leave and they cannot stop Britain leaving. Which, amongst other things is why "regain our sovereignty" is a weak reason for voting to leave.
We can leave. We can do it tomorrow as a "no deal Brexit". Parliament is just reluctant to sanction that because our elected representatives have had the consequences of a no-deal Brexit explained to them, and a majority of them have realised that lots of those consequences are scary and that don't remotely resemble the Shangri-la which was promised to voters. This is not the EU's fault, or Parliament's fault or undemocratic. It's simply what happens when fantasy collides with reality. That (most of) our elected representatives think they have a duty to act responsibly is something we ought to be thankful for.
And Godwin's Law is, in my view, not supposed to inhibit legitimate comment.
Look up "Totalitarianism" on Wikipedia and you get an image of Stalin illuminating the article...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
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Post by racingteatray on May 17, 2019 15:42:57 GMT
Why are Nazis associated with “right wing” and not anything else? The ethos was about nationalism and social responsibility to their perceived way of life in Germany at a time when they thought it was awry. That’s pretty much the position of the Left at the moment. Asking for a friend. After WW2, those left wingers who supported Socialism and Communism realised that they had no hope of drumming up support for their cause if people matched National Socialism with Socialism, so got their useful idiots in the press and acadamia to push Nazi = Right Wing. Nazism is considered distinct from Fascism. But so far as I can determine it is definitely not Socialism or Communism and to suggest otherwise seems troubling.
These two pieces seem fairly non-partisan descriptions of (a) Nazism and (b) why they called it National Socialism:
www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists
alphahistory.com/nazigermany/nazi-ideology/
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Post by Stuntman on May 17, 2019 19:41:05 GMT
Anyway. I have had leaflets from Labour, the Greens and the Brexit Party. Nothing from the Conservatives (my sitting MP is a Conservative) and nothing from the Lib Dems (his immediate predecessor was a Lib Dem). I will probably be voting Change UK
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Post by racingteatray on May 18, 2019 12:56:28 GMT
We’ve now had the full house except for the Tories which I assume they haven’t bothered with. I didn’t see the Brexit Party one but that’s apparently my wife found it first and immediately binned it.
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Post by Roadrunner on May 18, 2019 18:47:04 GMT
I had a personally addressed UKIP leaflet this morning, which I took great pleasure in tearing to confetti.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 20:28:27 GMT
I was always told that the politicals could bother us any time they liked but apparently that is not the case. When we tell to go forth, they should do just that. It's not as though they tell the truth or give any real information is it?
If they are going to put crap through my door I want it to have an amusing side, like some cartoons, or be really soft quad ply paper so I can demonstrate my feelings. Pity about that biological waste thing
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Post by michael on May 18, 2019 21:00:20 GMT
We’ve now had the full house except for the Tories which I assume they haven’t bothered with. I didn’t see the Brexit Party one but that’s apparently my wife found it first and immediately binned it. We got Conservative and UKIP today. We’ve not had anything from an independent.
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Post by LandieMark on May 18, 2019 22:14:18 GMT
Brexit, UKIP and Labour and possibly the Lib Dems - most of the leaflets get chucked in the binor used for firelighters. I'm a member of the Conservatives but that sits rather uneasily with me at the moment. I will keep paying the subs so I can vote against Boris though.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 23:34:11 GMT
He was setting up May or whoever got the job after cameroon jumped ship after the referendum, wanting to 'save the party' and be eulogised. Sad to say he seems to be the front runner. Myself, I'd go for Hunt or Javid. Preferably Hunt though.
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Post by michael on May 20, 2019 10:44:44 GMT
I’m going to award myself bonus points having received an electoral communication from the English Democrats. It’s, erm, interesting.
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Post by bryan on May 20, 2019 11:03:16 GMT
I still have only had Labour (duly shredded) and am feeling left out!
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Post by johnc on May 20, 2019 11:07:12 GMT
We got Labour, SNP and Greens at the weekend - a bit late because our postal votes have already been made. The Tories delivered their leaflet sometime last week and just in time for the recycling bin!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 12:10:28 GMT
ukip today, just as worthless as the rest so file 13.
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Post by racingteatray on May 20, 2019 12:58:21 GMT
I’m going to award myself bonus points having received an electoral communication from the English Democrats. It’s, erm, interesting. Yes, my mother received one of those too (inevitable living in coastal East Anglia I suspect) and she expressed a similar view on it, before also binning it.
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Post by racingteatray on May 20, 2019 13:02:41 GMT
He was setting up May or whoever got the job after cameroon jumped ship after the referendum, wanting to 'save the party' and be eulogised. Sad to say he seems to be the front runner. Myself, I'd go for Hunt or Javid. Preferably Hunt though. Apparently Hunt as candidate is referred to in Tory circles as "Theresa in trousers"...(presumably not designer chocolate brown leather ones although being a Tory MP you never know)...
Not sure that bodes well for him given how much they all apparently hate Mrs May.
I'm not sure I could pick a favoured candidate for Tory leader. They all seem fairly unappealing for one reason or another.
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Post by PetrolEd on May 20, 2019 13:37:06 GMT
Javid probably the best option. Maybe we give Heseltine his shot after all these years
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Post by racingteatray on May 20, 2019 14:09:40 GMT
Javid probably the best option. Maybe we give Heseltine his shot after all these years Didn't he just announce he was going to vote LibDem?
Must have caused a few heart attacks down at the Carlton Club...
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Post by Stuntman on May 20, 2019 21:01:32 GMT
^^^ Yep. Unsurprisingly, he's had the Tory whip removed.
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Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2019 10:24:07 GMT
^^^ Yep. Unsurprisingly, he's had the Tory whip removed. 50 Shades of May?!
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Post by michael on May 21, 2019 13:29:27 GMT
I’m going to award myself bonus points having received an electoral communication from the English Democrats. It’s, erm, interesting. Yes, my mother received one of those too (inevitable living in coastal East Anglia I suspect) and she expressed a similar view on it, before also binning it. I saw a comment elsewhere that referred to this as a communication from the Mondeo ST owners club, which I found quite amusing.
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Post by Stuntman on May 22, 2019 19:52:02 GMT
I got a UKIP leaflet yesterday. Still nothing from the Tories or the Lib Dems. Too late now!
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Post by PG on May 23, 2019 6:41:54 GMT
While the rest of us are voting today, please can the men in grey suits get some men in white coats to go round to number 10 and section Mrs May under the Mental Health Act? That would be the best outcome for everyone at this stage.
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Post by johnc on May 23, 2019 7:18:05 GMT
I reckon the last 3 years have alienated about half the voting public who have lost all interest and trust in politics. Everything has been a complete and utter shambles. Businesses who import and export to the EU still have no clarity and the Europeans' attitude now appears to be f*** you, as they secure customers and suppliers elsewhere: they will still deal with us but all friendship has gone. The exchange rate is also seriously damaging companies who need to import their products: it will stabilise when we have some certainty but in the meantime it might well kill a few businesses and industries.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 23, 2019 7:39:30 GMT
The exchange rate is also seriously damaging companies who need to import their products: it will stabilise when we have some certainty but in the meantime it might well kill a few businesses and industries. On the other hand it's been great for us - we're the busiest we've been for 4 years and are recruiting again.
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