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Post by michael on Jan 9, 2019 9:39:43 GMT
OK, sign me up. Can we add a call for the generationally unemployed to be used for some form of work to get their 'benefits'? How about tightening up employment laws and cleaning out organised crime using the SAS etc with a shoot first and make up the answers later AND chuck the Irish vagrants and other roadable vermin? Get them to travel around their coo for a few decades and a PNG on their passports or driving licenses etc. No problem with people who come here for good reason but the oriental profesional wives club should be attending their meetings in Manilla or somewhere near there. Not sure I can consider much of this as anything other than racist.
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 9, 2019 10:37:52 GMT
OK, sign me up. Can we add a call for the generationally unemployed to be used for some form of work to get their 'benefits'? How about tightening up employment laws and cleaning out organised crime using the SAS etc with a shoot first and make up the answers later AND chuck the Irish vagrants and other roadable vermin? Get them to travel around their coo for a few decades and a PNG on their passports or driving licenses etc. No problem with people who come here for good reason but the oriental profesional wives club should be attending their meetings in Manilla or somewhere near there. Not sure I can consider much of this as anything other than racist. That's because it is racist unfortunately.
Out of curiosity, what is the "oriental profesional wives club"?
Thai mail-order brides? Are they a major societal problem in this country?
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 9, 2019 10:40:41 GMT
OK, sign me up. Can we add a call for the generationally unemployed to be used for some form of work to get their 'benefits'? How about tightening up employment laws and cleaning out organised crime using the SAS etc with a shoot first and make up the answers later AND chuck the Irish vagrants and other roadable vermin? Get them to travel around their coo for a few decades and a PNG on their passports or driving licenses etc. No problem with people who come here for good reason but the oriental profesional wives club should be attending their meetings in Manilla or somewhere near there. Say what you mean, Alan, don't hold back. I didn't understand all of it but I think you need to be careful of using The Sun as a resource for political debate.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 9, 2019 10:42:45 GMT
Not sure I can consider much of this as anything other than racist.
Thai mail-order brides? Are they a major societal problem in this country?
I don't know if they're a problem but the postage costs are enormous. The Swedish ones are much better - taller and come flat-packed for easy delivery and assembly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 11:32:24 GMT
What I wrote is parodied and exaggerated. Calling it racist is a stretch. Considering that I have a large part of my extended family who ARE Irish and they state that the only reason these folk stay here is that they would get a proper kicking from the law and people back in the old country. Here they use the racist stick. As for the mostly old men who trawl the Philippines etc for 'wives' that should be stopped too. There are many folk out there, UK citizens who have never worked and probably never will, families where the last generation that worked was decades ago should be encouraged to work and possibly used in the social care system to close the gap in local care etc etc. I was in civilian life when Op Granby started and volunteered because people were being murdered. The fact that those people were Arab and Muslim was and is not important, they were human beings. Is it racist to put my life on the line for someone from a different race/faith etc? Considering that others here use axaggeration too but I get described as a racist is a bit much.
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 9, 2019 12:14:10 GMT
I think that if your beef is with spongers irrespective of who they are and where they come from, then you just need to take care with the way you phrase it.
Otherwise, it does unfortunately come across as drawing negative distinctions between people of different backgrounds and origins in generalising terms, which is de facto racism.
However, I also think that it is extremely hard to make something of yourself or improve your circumstances if you are truly born into what some term the British underclass. The brilliant or particularly determined, or those who get a passing lucky break, sometimes manage it. The average person of average abilities or drive probably doesn't. This is one of the biggest challenges for our society. I'm personally not in favour of stigmatising all people on long-term benefits as spongers - I think it is counterproductive.
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Post by johnc on Jan 9, 2019 12:54:22 GMT
The benefit system is also not fit for purpose. People who don't work, get housing benefit to pay their rent together with other benefits on top of that. They are also allowed to work up to 16hrs a week with no impact on their benefits. The minute they step over the 16hr week, they lose their housing benefit which is crazy - by getting paid an extra £7 for one hour's work, they lose perhaps £350/£400 in benefit. What this does, especially in the catering/entertainment/retail world, is that these people go through payroll for 16 hrs every week but in reality work nearly full time, getting paid in cash, from suppressed sales - that means the employer pays less VAT on the suppressed sales, he pays no NI, the individual gets cash in hand as well as all the benefits and the Government loses out.
However it's the Government's fault for having such stupid rules in place in the first instance. Cliff edge taxes are never fair and never work the way intended.
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Post by PG on Jan 9, 2019 13:20:21 GMT
The benefit system is also not fit for purpose. People who don't work, get housing benefit to pay their rent together with other benefits on top of that. They are also allowed to work up to 16hrs a week with no impact on their benefits. The minute they step over the 16hr week, they lose their housing benefit which is crazy - by getting paid an extra £7 for one hour's work, they lose perhaps £350/£400 in benefit. What this does, especially in the catering/entertainment/retail world, is that these people go through payroll for 16 hrs every week but in reality work nearly full time, getting paid in cash, from suppressed sales - that means the employer pays less VAT on the suppressed sales, he pays no NI, the individual gets cash in hand as well as all the benefits and the Government loses out. However it's the Government's fault for having such stupid rules in place in the first instance. Cliff edge taxes are never fair and never work the way intended. I think Universal Credit was / is supposed to deal with some of those issues. But of course it is now portrayed as meaning that people are all going to starve. It is one of the things that annoys me greatly. Politicians are very happy to lecture us on any number of subjects, but always shy away from difficult, contentious or risque subjects as the pressure groups hold way too much sway over what gets published or discussed. Any sensible fool can see that the benefit system is not fit for purpose; as is the NHS not fit; we all drive at more than 70 on the motorway; people use drugs; etc etc etc ad nauseam.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 9, 2019 13:36:52 GMT
I think Universal Credit was / is supposed to deal with some of those issues. But of course it is now portrayed as meaning that people are all going to starve. Ever been on weekly pay with no savings, then lost your job? Trying to go for 5 weeks until you receive any benefits is absolutely dire and degrading. There are surely people who have genuinely lived and worked in the UK all their lives who just need a helping hand for a few weeks or months until they find another regular job, yet it is so difficult to get any prompt assistance from the State when that happens.... but the State will willingly put illegal immigrants, so-called migrants etc up for free for weeks whilst it considers what to do with them. I don't believe that most politicians have any idea of the "real world" out there .....
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 9, 2019 13:41:25 GMT
I think Universal Credit was / is supposed to deal with some of those issues. But of course it is now portrayed as meaning that people are all going to starve. Ever been on weekly pay with no savings, then lost your job? Trying to go for 5 weeks until you receive any benefits is absolutely dire and degrading. There are surely people who have genuinely lived and worked in the UK all their lives who just need a helping hand for a few weeks or months until they find another regular job, yet it is so difficult to get any prompt assistance from the State when that happens.... but the State will willingly put illegal immigrants, so-called migrants etc up for free for weeks whilst it considers what to do with them. I don't believe that most politicians have any idea of the "real world" out there ..... It is true that it takes 5 weeks for your fist payment but you can get an advance payment (an interest free loan, in effect) if it would cause you undue hardship. It should take no more than 3 days.
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 9, 2019 14:49:46 GMT
It is true that it takes 5 weeks for your fist payment. Didn't know they did it cash in hand...
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 9, 2019 15:04:13 GMT
It is true that it takes 5 weeks for your fist payment. Didn't know they did it cash in hand... That's not Freudian - I'm obviously buying into the combative nature of this thread.
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Post by Alex on Jan 9, 2019 16:46:20 GMT
I think Universal Credit was / is supposed to deal with some of those issues. But of course it is now portrayed as meaning that people are all going to starve. Ever been on weekly pay with no savings, then lost your job? Trying to go for 5 weeks until you receive any benefits is absolutely dire and degrading. There are surely people who have genuinely lived and worked in the UK all their lives who just need a helping hand for a few weeks or months until they find another regular job, yet it is so difficult to get any prompt assistance from the State when that happens.... but the State will willingly put illegal immigrants, so-called migrants etc up for free for weeks whilst it considers what to do with them. I don't believe that most politicians have any idea of the "real world" out there ..... You’re reading too much of the Daily Mail there Chris, the percentage of our annual expenditure on benefits for illegal immigrants (who may be legitimately seeking asylum) is minuscule compared to the percentage that goes to British citizens. The overwhelming majority of migrants that arrive on our shores do so seeking work not benefits. Universal credit is a good thing in principle but it’s easy to see how a lot of claimants of the benefits it replaces will be worse off initially but the smoothing out of the cliff edges that result in dramatic drops in benefits will help encourage more people in to work without them being worse off doing so. That can only be a good thing but it’s a nice stick with which the government can be bashed. In the same way as a lot of unpopular Tory policies have been rightfully slammed, it’s the execution of the idea not the idea itself that is the problem.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 9, 2019 18:19:32 GMT
Sorry but I am speaking from personal experience, fortunately not recent. When you have next-to-zero and just want a little help, the Government just kicks you down even more with its lack of help or support
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 9, 2019 18:44:28 GMT
I have a great love and admiration for the NHS but it is very obvious to anyone visiting a hospital that there are lots of things that could be done better and lots of people who work there who are perhaps not working as hard as others (maybe the staff mix isn't right). Fun fact: the biggest purchaser of fax machines in the World is...the NHS. You're right, changes need to be made in the way it works because if we keep doing what we've always done, we'll get what we've always got. One thing's for sure; in the future we'll all be paying more tax. That surprises me greatly; certainly in mental health in Glasgow, the use of fax machines has been banned for anything to do with patient information - which is 99% of what they have been used for. Anything we used to use faxes for is now done via secure, encrypted email; I think the only faxes we get now are, somewhat ironically, sent by lawyers!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 19:04:17 GMT
Sorry folks, I can see that I will have to be more careful how I post, getting lazy. I come from the poor background many use as an excuse and I left school with no qualifications. I had to fight for the qualifications I now have while working. Also, I am not "Alan".
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 9, 2019 19:11:33 GMT
Ever been on weekly pay with no savings, then lost your job? Trying to go for 5 weeks until you receive any benefits is absolutely dire and degrading. There are surely people who have genuinely lived and worked in the UK all their lives who just need a helping hand for a few weeks or months until they find another regular job, yet it is so difficult to get any prompt assistance from the State when that happens.... but the State will willingly put illegal immigrants, so-called migrants etc up for free for weeks whilst it considers what to do with them. I don't believe that most politicians have any idea of the "real world" out there ..... It is true that it takes 5 weeks for your fist payment but you can get an advance payment (an interest free loan, in effect) if it would cause you undue hardship. It should take no more than 3 days. You might be able to, yes, but people have to know about it to apply and the staff of the DWP are not allowed to tell them! That's a fact. Ever been on weekly pay with no savings, then lost your job? Trying to go for 5 weeks until you receive any benefits is absolutely dire and degrading. There are surely people who have genuinely lived and worked in the UK all their lives who just need a helping hand for a few weeks or months until they find another regular job, yet it is so difficult to get any prompt assistance from the State when that happens.... but the State will willingly put illegal immigrants, so-called migrants etc up for free for weeks whilst it considers what to do with them. I don't believe that most politicians have any idea of the "real world" out there ..... You’re reading too much of the Daily Mail there Chris, the percentage of our annual expenditure on benefits for illegal immigrants (who may be legitimately seeking asylum) is minuscule compared to the percentage that goes to British citizens. The overwhelming majority of migrants that arrive on our shores do so seeking work not benefits. Universal credit is a good thing in principle but it’s easy to see how a lot of claimants of the benefits it replaces will be worse off initially but the smoothing out of the cliff edges that result in dramatic drops in benefits will help encourage more people in to work without them being worse off doing so. That can only be a good thing but it’s a nice stick with which the government can be bashed. In the same way as a lot of unpopular Tory policies have been rightfully slammed, it’s the execution of the idea not the idea itself that is the problem. "Illegal" immigrants, as far as we're concerned in the mental health sector, are defined as those from other countries who have not sought asylum. If that's the case, they are NOT entitled to anything at all, despite what the Daily Fail, Ukip and the like might tell you. Asylum seekers are housed, indeed, and provided the princely sum of £36.50 per week to pay for ALL their needs; food, any clothes they might need, toiletries etc etc. You try it. As for UC, it is capped, which will please some no doubt, in a similar way that Housing Benefit already is (not a lot of people seem to know that). I honestly don't think UC is an encouragement to work for most on benefits; many of the people we come in to contact with would work if their health allowed it, physical and/or mental. There are exceptions to that, of course, but by and large it's what we find. Myself, and most of my colleagues, have years of experience in assessing people in various areas of life, and we are pretty hard-minded when it comes to giving people "advice".
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Post by PG on Jan 9, 2019 20:57:42 GMT
Sorry but I am speaking from personal experience, fortunately not recent. When you have next-to-zero and just want a little help, the Government just kicks you down even more with its lack of help or support Sorry Chris, I was not meaning to demean people who need help or say they should not get help. Help is supposed to go to those in need. As alex said, bad implementation is too often the reason for issues - not the policy itself. What we should be asking is why the fuck it takes 5 weeks to process the first payment? In this internet age, it ought to take one day. Too often government and its minions accept that stuff takes ages. Stuff that a decent commercial organisation would just have to get done way, way quicker. After all this is the 21st century. We all carry computers, scanners and communication devices round in our pockets (aka a smart phone).
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 9, 2019 22:25:29 GMT
Sorry but I am speaking from personal experience, fortunately not recent. When you have next-to-zero and just want a little help, the Government just kicks you down even more with its lack of help or support Sorry Chris, I was not meaning to demean people who need help or say they should not get help. Help is supposed to go to those in need. As alex said, bad implementation is too often the reason for issues - not the policy itself. What we should be asking is why the fuck it takes 5 weeks to process the first payment? In this internet age, it ought to take one day. Too often government and its minions accept that stuff takes ages. Stuff that a decent commercial organisation would just have to get done way, way quicker. After all this is the 21st century. We all carry computers, scanners and communication devices round in our pockets (aka a smart phone). The problem isn't (just) the technology; the software for UC is widely acknowledged to not be fit for purpose, but even worse is the dearth of people trained/permitted to input information into the system. That lack is one of the main reason for the delay; that, and it was decreed thus at the inception of UC that it would take 5 weeks, and so it remains. I've attended a couple of basic briefings about UC - it will affect most of our patients sooner or later - and am going to a more in-depth session at the end of the month. It will hopefully answer a few of the many questions we have about the whole thing, and maybe some of questions about other benefits, which are being phased out, too.
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Post by Alex on Jan 10, 2019 7:53:34 GMT
Sorry but I am speaking from personal experience, fortunately not recent. When you have next-to-zero and just want a little help, the Government just kicks you down even more with its lack of help or support Sorry Chris, I was not meaning to demean people who need help or say they should not get help. Help is supposed to go to those in need. As alex said, bad implementation is too often the reason for issues - not the policy itself. What we should be asking is why the fuck it takes 5 weeks to process the first payment? In this internet age, it ought to take one day. Too often government and its minions accept that stuff takes ages. Stuff that a decent commercial organisation would just have to get done way, way quicker. After all this is the 21st century. We all carry computers, scanners and communication devices round in our pockets (aka a smart phone). I believe the rule is actually that you wait 5 weeks to receive your first payment in arrears. The idea is that this is how you would get paid by an employer so it’s meant to get you used to receiving money in arrears rather than in advance. It’s all part of the principle of encouraging those who have not worked for some time to seek employment as research (the governments, not mine) told them that some people were put off by having to wait a whole month to receive their first pay packet.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 10, 2019 8:37:46 GMT
Sorry folks, I can see that I will have to be more careful how I post, getting lazy. I come from the poor background many use as an excuse and I left school with no qualifications. I had to fight for the qualifications I now have while working. Also, I am not "Alan". You'll always be Alan to me, Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 20:14:09 GMT
Actually, Syd, this week I am Gordon......
Or, is that Steve?......
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Post by Andy C on Jan 10, 2019 20:19:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 11:08:38 GMT
Thanks, coming from someone who does not know me that means something. Or nothing.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 11, 2019 11:22:06 GMT
Thanks, coming from someone who does not know me that means something. Or nothing. You're not Alan. To be honest I miss the fella, this place hasn't been quite the same since he took off with that Thai ladyboy. I just hope their happy, cruising the North Yorkshire Moors in his mum's Hyundai Getz.
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Post by PG on Jan 11, 2019 12:06:51 GMT
Thanks, coming from someone who does not know me that means something. Or nothing. You're not Alan. To be honest I miss the fella, this place hasn't been quite the same since he took off with that Thai ladyboy. I just hope their happy, cruising the North Yorkshire Moors in his mum's Hyundai Getz. That's not an image to think too long over just before lunch......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 12:41:19 GMT
I wish him well too. He is just as entitled to a bit of happiness as anyone else.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jan 11, 2019 12:45:03 GMT
I wish him well too. He is just as entitled to a bit of happiness as anyone else. Isn't the issue though, that in the case of his ladyboy friend that bit is missing?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 12:46:06 GMT
What are you saying?
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Post by racingteatray on Jan 11, 2019 15:04:14 GMT
Thanks, coming from someone who does not know me that means something. Or nothing. You're not Alan. To be honest I miss the fella, this place hasn't been quite the same since he took off with that Thai ladyboy. I just hope their happy, cruising the North Yorkshire Moors in his mum's Hyundai Getz. I thought (s)he was a Kazakh and the flounce-wagon was a Rover 100?
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