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WLTP
Dec 15, 2018 9:40:34 GMT
Post by johnc on Dec 15, 2018 9:40:34 GMT
I have a client who was looking to buy an RS4 and this particularly interested me since I rather like the idea of one as well.
However he was telling me yesterday that the delivery times are ridiculous - he was told it could be 9 months. There also appear to be next to no new ones in the country since he was prepared to take one in stock if it came close to what he wanted but there was only one his dealer could get and it wasn't a good fit. The RS5 is apparently not such a problem and there are more of them about but still long lead times if ordering and speccing a new one.
He said he couldn't get a straight answer from the salesman who wittered something about changes for WLTP and Christmas shutdown etc
Does anyone know why WLTP changes (which have been known about for some time) should cause such a delay in being able to get a new car? Surely the changes can't have come as a shock to the manufacturers or is it just that niche low volume cars like the RS4 get put to the end of the queue for development? Or perhaps there has been petrol economy trickery going on at VW/Audi as well and it is an issue to sort.
The M3 was dropped earlier this year because the new 3 series was coming and it wasn't worth the resources to change the current car. I also read that they are stopping the M4 rather than developing it even though that wasn't the original intention.
I suggested that he look at some of the low/no mileage M5's around so he is going to do that but a bit like the reverse of me, he has had Audi's for as long as I have known him and considering changing brands is a bit of a strain. |
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WLTP
Dec 15, 2018 9:47:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by michael on Dec 15, 2018 9:47:43 GMT
I had initially planned to buy a trade-in Discovery but the car the owner of it was buying couldn’t be released as they hadn’t passed their WLTP checks. Land Rover has a carpark full of cars they couldn’t release because of it. I think that once the model has been approved they’re all good to go so I’m not sure how that would affect the RS4 now unless the stall in supply chain had been interrupted to such an extent the system still isn’t running quite right?
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WLTP
Dec 15, 2018 9:55:00 GMT
Post by Martin on Dec 15, 2018 9:55:00 GMT
They need to fit a particulate filter to petrol engines and get them tested, which does seem to have caught a lot of manufacturers out, probably because they have so many variations in their ranges. From what I’ve read and you’d expect, they’ve prioritised the testing in volume order, so the more interesting stuff is at the back of the queue.
If we’d ordered the Golf 3-4 week later, it would be arriving in February, 7 months later. All the R’s they’ve built since the production line started back up in October are parked up waiting for the testing.
There is a website that covers where the manufacturers are, I’ll have a look.
The 9 month lead time must mean that they haven’t started production up again, or had a significant gap leaving them with a backlog of orders.
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WLTP
Dec 15, 2018 10:04:41 GMT
Post by Martin on Dec 15, 2018 10:04:41 GMT
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WLTP
Dec 15, 2018 11:14:56 GMT
Post by johnc on Dec 15, 2018 11:14:56 GMT
Thanks Martin, that answers a lot. Presumably the RS models will be tested in Q1 of 2019 and by the time they get things back up and running and clear the backlog, it will be September! Not too good for business I wouldn't think.
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WLTP
Dec 15, 2018 12:41:51 GMT
Post by Alex on Dec 15, 2018 12:41:51 GMT
One big problem is that under WLTP any option fitted to a car will have an effect on the CO2 figure and so for higher end cars that are often bought with a lot of option, there is going to be a delay whilst every combination of options is tested and approved. A lot of the more mainstream models are now being offered with vastly reduced optional equipment or have more options rolled into packs. Go online to configure a SEAT Leon or similar and it pretty much skips the option page, all it shows is dealer fit accessories such as tow bars or roof racks as these are exempt. A lot of models are not even giving you the option of different wheels, presumably because so few people opted for them that the cost of re testing isn’t worth it.
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WLTP
Dec 16, 2018 8:43:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 8:43:10 GMT
One big problem is that under WLTP any option fitted to a car will have an effect on the CO2 figure and so for higher end cars that are often bought with a lot of option, there is going to be a delay whilst every combination of options is tested and approved. A lot of the more mainstream models are now being offered with vastly reduced optional equipment or have more options rolled into packs. Go online to configure a SEAT Leon or similar and it pretty much skips the option page, all it shows is dealer fit accessories such as tow bars or roof racks as these are exempt. A lot of models are not even giving you the option of different wheels, presumably because so few people opted for them that the cost of re testing isn’t worth it. That about sums it up, for example the Cupra I have can only be bought in 2 versions now, Cupra and Cupra Lux. There is no choice of gearbox, they are all 7 Speed DSG now, the manual was dropped. My car is an weird hybrid of options from both 2018 and 2019 MY, it has a reversing camera and BEATS audio, neither are available to order, they only honoured them as parts are available from foreign markets and I ordered a 2018 car (ordered in May 2018, delivered on the 5th of December!!!) It also has a "detuned" engine, from 300PS to 290PS and has the PF fitted which cars built prior to WLTP regulations didn't have, though they had a 6 Speed DSG. |
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WLTP
Dec 16, 2018 11:05:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 11:05:22 GMT
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WLTP
Dec 16, 2018 11:38:31 GMT
Post by johnc on Dec 16, 2018 11:38:31 GMT
I can understand that different wheel and tyre sizes make a difference to consumption and emissions but it completely misses me why an upgraded sound system, different dashboard trim or type of headlining make any difference at all.
Many people don't use their aircon and others have every electrical gadget switched on which I dare say will make some small difference but that's more down to the driver than the car. Is this the bureaucrats and Politicians meddling in things they know nothing about again?
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WLTP
Dec 16, 2018 11:47:50 GMT
Post by Boxer6 on Dec 16, 2018 11:47:50 GMT
I can understand that different wheel and tyre sizes make a difference to consumption and emissions but it completely misses me why an upgraded sound system, different dashboard trim or type of headlining make any difference at all. Many people don't use their aircon and others have every electrical gadget switched on which I dare say will make some small difference but that's more down to the driver than the car. Is this the bureaucrats and Politicians meddling in things they know nothing about again?Almost certainly. They can't help themselves, plus it makes them look as if they're actually doing something! |
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 7:26:58 GMT
Post by humphreythepug on Dec 17, 2018 7:26:58 GMT
We've have a list of accessories which could affect the emissions of vehicles, anything up to 15kg extra in total is fine, go beyond that weight and also include things such as roof boxes and roof bars which can disrupt airflow, it is advised to have the car registered first before adding the accessories.
Currently Megane Renaultsport still hasn't been signed off and we haven't been able to order automatic versions of some cars since before the summer.
The main issue is the testing is much more thorough, it takes far longer, every variant and engine and gearbox has to be tested with each option and variation of options and there are only a small amount of test centres across Europethus resulting in a backlog.
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 8:00:12 GMT
Post by ChrisM on Dec 17, 2018 8:00:12 GMT
Many people don't use their aircon and others have every electrical gadget switched on which I dare say will make some small difference but that's more down to the driver than the car. Is this the bureaucrats and Politicians meddling in things they know nothing about again? IMHO - absolutely, yes. One reason, I suspect, why many voted to egt out of Europe - because the MPs, law-makers or whatever you wish to cal them (in polite terms) don't fully understand what they are legislating, should not in any event be meddling in such arenas, and as I think can be proven, often propose stupid laws so that they retain their jobs whilst their sillliness is debated at length. Not morally right and how much energy is wasted in travelling to meetings etc to discuss such inane proposals. |
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 12:41:14 GMT
Post by Blarno on Dec 17, 2018 12:41:14 GMT
Particulate filters on petrol cars now?
Wow. Yet more expense when they're 5 years old and have only been used for short journeys.
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 13:29:52 GMT
Post by PG on Dec 17, 2018 13:29:52 GMT
All people really wanted was a realistic estimate of fuel consumption. Add CO2 as tax depends on that in some cases / countries. Then add on a realistic NOx figure.
What we have instead is the usual politicians and bureaucrats overly complicated massive ball-ache disaster. A 15kg weight change on a car is a bonkers threshold. That's the same as putting a piece of luggage in the boot or a small dog onboard. Fucking madness.
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 13:39:02 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 17, 2018 13:39:02 GMT
All people really wanted was a realistic estimate of fuel consumption. Add CO2 as tax depends on that in some cases / countries. Then add on a realistic NOx figure. What we have instead is the usual politicians and bureaucrats overly complicated massive ball-ache disaster. A 15kg weight change on a car is a bonkers threshold. That's the same as putting a piece of luggage in the boot or a small dog onboard. Fucking madness. Don't go putting ideas in their heads or they'll be starting all over again and working their way through all the breeds from Westie through to Newfie. There is an issue with particulates from petrol engines (potentially as bad as diesel) so if the technology is there to reduce that risk I don't have a problem with filters being fitted, particularly if we want to continue to drive into city centres. |
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 13:48:23 GMT
Post by PetrolEd on Dec 17, 2018 13:48:23 GMT
Visiting my Porsche dealer a few weeks ago, they have very little to sell and have been in that predicament since the factory shut down in July I think. So much that my Salesman who has been used to a very good wage for the last few years has effectively been given a massive pay cut due to lack of numbers. Still its all good news for residual values on nearly new stuff.
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 14:14:28 GMT
Post by Alex on Dec 17, 2018 14:14:28 GMT
Visiting my Porsche dealer a few weeks ago, they have very little to sell and have been in that predicament since the factory shut down in July I think. So much that my Salesman who has been used to a very good wage for the last few years has effectively been given a massive pay cut due to lack of numbers. Still its all good news for residual values on nearly new stuff. My brother, a FIAT salesman is also struggling as the lack of new cars is starting to lead to shortages of nearly new ones which, as Humph will attest, is where the profit margins and commission are high. Dealer margins on new cars are low but boosted by optional extras. With less options being available there’s less scope for additional profit. His group buyer isn’t getting as healthy a stock of good, well specced 500’s as he used to and their forecourt is half empty. |
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 14:29:18 GMT
Post by Martin on Dec 17, 2018 14:29:18 GMT
Visiting my Porsche dealer a few weeks ago, they have very little to sell and have been in that predicament since the factory shut down in July I think. So much that my Salesman who has been used to a very good wage for the last few years has effectively been given a massive pay cut due to lack of numbers. Still its all good news for residual values on nearly new stuff. They were struggling when I was in the market back in May, as they knew the factory was closing so we’re clearing existing orders and not taking new ones. |
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 16:24:59 GMT
Post by Martin on Dec 17, 2018 16:24:59 GMT
At the opposite end of the lead time spectrum, one of my site managers placed an order for a 530e M Sport on the 20th November and it's being delivered on Wednesday. I thought it might have been in stock, but I'm not sure as he's added a sunroof, HK Speakers and folding mirrors, so it's not a completely standard car.
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WLTP
Dec 17, 2018 17:26:08 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Dec 17, 2018 17:26:08 GMT
When you order a car with a 9 month waiting list, what happens if the RRP goes up in the mean time (says he thinking of Brexit-related Sterlingeddon)?
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Dec 17, 2018 21:01:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by PetrolEd on Dec 17, 2018 21:01:45 GMT
When you order a car with a 9 month waiting list, what happens if the RRP goes up in the mean time (says he thinking of Brexit-related Sterlingeddon)? You get stung for the increase though you’d probably get your deposit back if the change was significant. |
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Dec 17, 2018 22:14:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by cbeaks1 on Dec 17, 2018 22:14:23 GMT
When you order a car with a 9 month waiting list, what happens if the RRP goes up in the mean time (says he thinking of Brexit-related Sterlingeddon)? You get stung for the increase though you’d probably get your deposit back if the change was significant. In theory the price is protected at contract - certainly is for us. |
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WLTP
Dec 18, 2018 10:14:59 GMT
Post by PetrolEd on Dec 18, 2018 10:14:59 GMT
Really, never was the case where I worked but that was nearly 20 years ago now.
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WLTP
Dec 19, 2018 12:41:51 GMT
Post by johnc on Dec 19, 2018 12:41:51 GMT
Having had that very conversation with the Mercedes dealer, the customer takes the risk on any price increases, so a hard brexit could bring a 10% increase at least. I am pretty sure that BMW are the same.
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Dec 19, 2018 12:43:00 GMT
Post by johnc on Dec 19, 2018 12:43:00 GMT
When you order a car with a 9 month waiting list, what happens if the RRP goes up in the mean time (says he thinking of Brexit-related Sterlingeddon)? More importantly Racing, which car were you thinking about? |
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WLTP
Dec 19, 2018 14:05:53 GMT
Post by grampa on Dec 19, 2018 14:05:53 GMT
You get stung for the increase though you’d probably get your deposit back if the change was significant. In theory the price is protected at contract - certainly is for us. That used to be the same with me too when I ordered a car for contract hire (I very rarely ordered a car that had less than a six months wait) - but I guess a contract hire company with a fleet of 6 or 7000 vehicles probably carries a little more weight with manufacturers/importers about what they're prepared to pay for a car than I would as an individual customer. I was with the head of the contract hire company once when his phone rang with someone who wanted to buy 40 Fiestas (they also did sales as well as hire) - it was like listening to Richard Rawlings doing a deal! |
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WLTP
Dec 19, 2018 14:43:08 GMT
Post by racingteatray on Dec 19, 2018 14:43:08 GMT
When you order a car with a 9 month waiting list, what happens if the RRP goes up in the mean time (says he thinking of Brexit-related Sterlingeddon)? More importantly Racing, which car were you thinking about? Actually I am not! It was simple curiosity.
The GC is only half way through a 4yr PCP and hasn't yet hit 14k miles, plus it suits us well, so no plans to change.
I could be tempted to swap our 500 for a used 105bhp Twinair cabrio if I could find one in the right colour/spec/condition because the 500 is ideal for London and I miss having a convertible, but otherwise I think car changes are not on the horizon for the foreseeable future.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:43:40 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Dec 19, 2018 15:43:40 GMT
The 500 cabrios are lovely, we had two and the missus loved them and loved going topless on the way home after work in the summer.
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Dec 19, 2018 16:02:40 GMT
Post by Big Blue on Dec 19, 2018 16:02:40 GMT
The 500 cabrios are lovely, we had two and the missus loved them and loved going topless on the way home after work in the summer. Those Northern lasses: no self consciousness when it comes to flashing their bodies. |
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WLTP
Dec 20, 2018 11:09:36 GMT
Post by Tim on Dec 20, 2018 11:09:36 GMT
All this talk of 9 month waiting lists! A colleague is getting a VW T-Roc, ordered last Saturday, collecting on 29th December (2018  . |
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