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iPace
Sept 21, 2018 14:47:22 GMT
Post by johnc on Sept 21, 2018 14:47:22 GMT
I haven't driven it yet but today I received an invitation to drive the car at one of 5 locations (Tewkesbury Park, Goodwood, Oulton Park,Millbrook and Knockhill) . The nearest is Knockhill on 22 November which is guaranteed to be seriously cold and wet but I am really looking forward to it. If I could get it in budget I would seriously consider it.
I will prepare a write-up after I have been.
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iPace
Sept 21, 2018 15:33:46 GMT
Post by Tim on Sept 21, 2018 15:33:46 GMT
I saw one in a car park a couple of weeks ago and was surprised how low and sleek it was. I hadn't paid much attention to it until then but was expecting something more upright and SUV like.
I think I might've confused it with an E Pace in my expectations.
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iPace
Sept 21, 2018 19:17:12 GMT
Post by PG on Sept 21, 2018 19:17:12 GMT
I haven't driven it yet but today I received an invitation to drive the car at one of 5 locations (Tewkesbury Park, Goodwood, Oulton Park,Millbrook and Knockhill) . The nearest is Knockhill on 22 November which is guaranteed to be seriously cold and wet but I am really looking forward to it. If I could get it in budget I would seriously consider it.
I will prepare a write-up after I have been. Great blag! My invite (as a current Jaguar owner) must have got lost in the post then......
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iPace
Sept 21, 2018 19:43:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Martin on Sept 21, 2018 19:43:42 GMT
That is a good offer.
I’ve not had anything from JLR, despite fairly seriously looking at an XF a couple of years ago and a Range Rover more recently.
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iPace
Sept 22, 2018 6:51:04 GMT
Post by johnc on Sept 22, 2018 6:51:04 GMT
I'm not sure if the invitations can be tracked in any way but I am happy to forward it to either of you if you PM me your e-mail address. You need to choose your location and time and then fill in all your details.
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iPace
Sept 24, 2018 9:04:51 GMT
Post by PetrolEd on Sept 24, 2018 9:04:51 GMT
I'll PM you John and see if I can blag my way on to the one at Goodwood, Ta
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iPace
Sept 24, 2018 18:56:36 GMT
Post by PG on Sept 24, 2018 18:56:36 GMT
John, I've PM'd you.
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iPace
Sept 30, 2018 9:19:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 9:19:51 GMT
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iPace
Sept 30, 2018 12:43:39 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 12:43:39 GMT
Probably fine if you can plug in and recharge at each end of your journey but no signs yet of the ease and readiness of an ICE.
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iPace
Sept 30, 2018 13:02:15 GMT
Post by PG on Sept 30, 2018 13:02:15 GMT
Have booked a place at Oulton. An early 0830 slot on the sunday - a lot of the other slots were booked up. Clearly a lot of people are interested in having a go in an iPace. I saw and read that article. Follows on from the one recently about trying to do a long trip in a new Leaf. Basically, the current charging infrastructure really cannot support serious EV use for long trips, unless you have plenty of time on your hands. And by the sound of it any fuel savings will be eaten into by the number of Starbucks you'll have to buy while you wait to charge! But as ranges increase, commuting using home charging will become more practical and perhaps that will be the tipping point?
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 4:30:06 GMT
Post by Ben on Oct 3, 2018 4:30:06 GMT
I saw and read that article. Follows on from the one recently about trying to do a long trip in a new Leaf. Basically, the current charging infrastructure really cannot support serious EV use for long trips, unless you have plenty of time on your hands. And by the sound of it any fuel savings will be eaten into by the number of Starbucks you'll have to buy while you wait to charge! But as ranges increase, commuting using home charging will become more practical and perhaps that will be the tipping point? I think the biggest disadvantages for EVs against ICE cars now remains charging infrastructure (a situation that's improving, no doubt, but there needs to be uniformity in type of chargers) and charging times. When you can refuel your regular car in mere minutes, having to sit around for an hour to wait for your EV to charge up is an annoying inconvenience.
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 9:00:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 9:00:22 GMT
It will be difficult for the situation to improve until parking with access to charging points reaches a much higher level than now and in big cities like London, parking spots are being removed to force use of the public transport system. I asked Wandsworth council why it was impossible to find to visit my sibles due to parking spots being removed and was told in no uncertain manner, "GET THE TRAIN". With few parking spots around tower blocks, how do you park near enough your home to recharge batteries?
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 9:30:39 GMT
Post by Tim on Oct 3, 2018 9:30:39 GMT
If you think about how busy some petrol stations are then convert that to electric recharging stations you can see how the current model is unworkable.
Meanwhile the view of a lot of train companies appears to be to discourage passenger growth in favour of higher ticket prices.
So if there's no fundamental change to either of these approaches we're going to need a 3rd option for travel. Perhaps some sort of portable power source that can be recharged reliably and quickly. Maybe it could be powered by burning refined oil?
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 10:33:26 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 3, 2018 10:33:26 GMT
The idea of having plug in battery packs under the back seat, where you just drive into the filling station, over a piece of kit that swops it out for a new, fully recharged one, would seem to be a good option, but relies on manufacturers collaborating on battery size and technology. You often find that new technologies start out competing before one wins out e.g Betamax, VHS.
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would seem to offer the advantages of very quick fill up and zero emissions and we could all move over to electric without any range anxiety.
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 12:59:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 12:59:35 GMT
Which is probably why it is not being promoted, too bloody sensible.
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 13:48:02 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 3, 2018 13:48:02 GMT
Which is probably why it is not being promoted, too bloody sensible. I met these guys a while ago: www.itm-power.com/Hydrogen filling stations. Water at the filling station is converted into hydrogen by their technology using surplus renewable energy (the wind farm stuff that you can't switch off).
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 13:56:42 GMT
Post by Tim on Oct 3, 2018 13:56:42 GMT
I read an article about a Hydrogen fuel cell powered Homda a few years ago in CAR mag. The industry reckoned they could put a hydrogen plant into every filling station in the US for an average cost of something like $160k per location but for some reason its not been spoken of since.
Just why is it that we're chasing electric power given that so much is created by burning fossil fuels and a lot of the rest is surely questionable due to mining of raw materials, long transportation distances, infrastructure costs, etc? As an example just think of some of the wind turbine farms in remoteish places in Scotland. The turbines are often made overseas, roads have to be adjusted on the way up there to allow lorries access along twisty backroads and then they have to build roads, albeit gravel ones, up into the hills. At that point they dump a huge wad of concrete in the ground and then bolt this metal and composite structure on top of it.
It must take years to pay back the pollution caused by getting it to the point that it generates power.
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 15:50:28 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 15:50:28 GMT
Nuclear must be clean, oh wait, it's not. There are several thousand tons of radioactive waste that the French dumped in the English channel at a location known as the Hurd deep, a massive 168 metres deep. but it was dumped by the French so is OK?
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 16:37:08 GMT
Post by Ben on Oct 3, 2018 16:37:08 GMT
If you think about how busy some petrol stations are then convert that to electric recharging stations you can see how the current model is unworkable. Meanwhile the view of a lot of train companies appears to be to discourage passenger growth in favour of higher ticket prices. So if there's no fundamental change to either of these approaches we're going to need a 3rd option for travel. Perhaps some sort of portable power source that can be recharged reliably and quickly. Maybe it could be powered by burning refined oil? Walk. They want us to walk.
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 20:05:35 GMT
Post by PG on Oct 3, 2018 20:05:35 GMT
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would seem to offer the advantages of very quick fill up and zero emissions and we could all move over to electric without any range anxiety. Reports show that in terms of efficiency, EV's win hands down over hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Hydrogen is expensive to make in terms of energy required, hard to store and transport and you have more opportunities to lose efficiency over an EV. But what is the big positive for hydrogen is convenience - the ability to refill in a few minutes as we do now. Lower efficiency for higher convenience is the trade off. It is very interesting that Toyota are investing heavily in FCV research and building FVC cars. Will they do for hydrogen cars what they did for HEV's with the Prius?
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 20:20:46 GMT
Post by chipbutty on Oct 3, 2018 20:20:46 GMT
Solid oxide fuel cells are the ones to watch, they run on natural gas (amongst other things) and have much lower emissions overall. Apparently running an SOFC on gas produces electricity at a lower per unit cost than just buying electric.
SOFCs will be useful where the electricity supply is inadequate, and I think can be relatively portable.
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iPace
Oct 3, 2018 21:36:44 GMT
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Oct 3, 2018 21:36:44 GMT
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would seem to offer the advantages of very quick fill up and zero emissions and we could all move over to electric without any range anxiety. Reports show that in terms of efficiency, EV's win hands down over hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Hydrogen is expensive to make in terms of energy required, hard to store and transport and you have more opportunities to lose efficiency over an EV. It's not expensive to make if you're using surplus renewables and it's not hard to store and transport if you make it at the point of use and when required.
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iPace
Oct 4, 2018 9:49:53 GMT
Post by johnc on Oct 4, 2018 9:49:53 GMT
I read an article about a Hydrogen fuel cell powered Homda a few years ago in CAR mag. The industry reckoned they could put a hydrogen plant into every filling station in the US for an average cost of something like $160k per location but for some reason its not been spoken of since. Just why is it that we're chasing electric power given that so much is created by burning fossil fuels and a lot of the rest is surely questionable due to mining of raw materials, long transportation distances, infrastructure costs, etc? As an example just think of some of the wind turbine farms in remoteish places in Scotland. The turbines are often made overseas, roads have to be adjusted on the way up there to allow lorries access along twisty backroads and then they have to build roads, albeit gravel ones, up into the hills. At that point they dump a huge wad of concrete in the ground and then bolt this metal and composite structure on top of it. It must take years to pay back the pollution caused by getting it to the point that it generates power. California is pushing ahead with Hydrogen research and may be the first State to openly embrace it for longer journeys. I have mentioned previously that I spoke to a Jaguar/Landrover man who was of the opinion that there was no realistic potential for everyone changing to electric - too few power stations for a start but a completely impossible task of providing all cars with charging points. Hydrogen is a sensible solution.
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iPace
Nov 24, 2018 19:04:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by johnc on Nov 24, 2018 19:04:25 GMT
I had my afternoon at Knockhill and surrounding roads and I have to say I was very impressed. Performance is not lacking at all an is more than enough for the roads. On the main straight at Knockhill I hit the slight rise near the start finish line (where the car goes light) at about 100mph and it was still pulling strongly. On the road though was where it impressed me the most. The ride was a revelation and very comfortable whilst the body control was excellent with little roll in the wet/damp conditions. On the track I had a couple of moments which were basically 4 wheel drifts showing a well balanced chassis although when the grip fell away I became much more aware of the weight this car is carrying around. Internal space is very generous although the boot is only moderate in size: probably quite adequate for most purposes but not as big as the X4. The steering didn’t have great feedback but it did have decent feel if that isn’t a contradiction. I knew what the wheels were doing even if I couldn’t feel every pebble I ran over. The interior quality and fit also impressed with nice quality leather and decent switchgear - maybe not as good a feel as some of its premium rivals but still pretty good. One disappointment is that there is no sunroof option - only a fixed glass panoramic roof. I was impressed enough to go away and look up the finance options but 6.9% apr on a PCP for an £80K car just makes it too expensive. However I can’t thank Jaguar enough for a great afternoon with excellent hospitality and people. Today I have been to look at a 68 plate pre reg, no mileage M4 fully loaded at £52K which is still tugging the heart strings. Also looked at an E53 Coupe which sounded pretty good and felt decent quality but didn’t absolutely sell itself to me. It’s quick though. Also sat in a used M5 at £79K which felt wonderful but it is just too expensive at the moment. The salesman was very honest and told me he reckoned in 6 to 9 months time the M5 would be £15K to £20K cheaper.
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iPace
Nov 24, 2018 22:26:55 GMT
Post by Big Blue on Nov 24, 2018 22:26:55 GMT
The salesman was very honest and told me he reckoned in 6 to 9 months time the M5 would be £15K to £20K cheaper. So you have your answer..... a relatively short wait.
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iPace
Nov 25, 2018 10:55:56 GMT
Post by PG on Nov 25, 2018 10:55:56 GMT
I did my morning at Oulton Park. Didn't get to writing it up due to being so busy at the moment, so to add to what john said after his write up, I too found it hugely impressive on the road. And I'm no track hand, but it was quick if heavy with a tendency to understeer in my incapable hands. I suffered from trying to put the power on too early - I won't be entering Formula anything any time soon. I'm not really sure that AWD electric cars are really track machines, he says to reassure himself ;-) On the road, the ride was good and the near silence very impressive. I drove a Nissan Leaf a coupe of years ago and the tyre and road noise was very noticeable with no engine to offset it. The Jag guy said that huge effort had been put into the design ann materials for the wheel arch liners, sound material and so on to remove that road noise. It seems to have worked - even on the biggest wheel and tyre combos. The road trip was also the first car I've driven with proper HUD - set up to be projecting "onto the road" about 20 feet in front of you. Very impressive, if a bit disconcerting to start with, but I'm sure you get used to it very quickly. The guy I shared my road trip with was about to order an iPace. He was planning to trade his XF Estate diesel S for one, using cash fro the balance rather then the 6.9% arse ripping finance on offer. Like john, an 80k car on 6.9% APR sure looks expensive. But then I suppose, if you look at total running costs, the fuel saving (and congestion charge for those-there Londonites), the BIK differential and the ability for companies to claim 100% tax WDA in year 1, that starts to look a total overall very different calculation. I had not clocked until the Jag guy mentioned it, that BIK on EV's goes down to 2% on 2020/21. I can't believe it will stay at that rate, but that in itself will mean that anybody running an ICE company car is going to be massively incentivised to move to EV.
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iPace
Nov 26, 2018 8:59:19 GMT
Post by johnc on Nov 26, 2018 8:59:19 GMT
Regardless of how intelligent some people are, they seem to have trouble getting their head around the capital allowances: I had one client who just couldn't understand that the Government were not going to give him £100,000 off his tax bill because he spent £100K on a Tesla. He was very disappointed to find that his tax saving was "only" £20K. However he is now raging that he has to pay tax back based on the trade in value he has just received.
I can see the 100% Cap Allowances being significantly reduced to coincide with the 2% BIK rate (which will then become 5%, 8%, 11% and so on). Governments just know how to throw a bucket of cold water on anything which might become popular: they must be fun at a party.
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iPace
Nov 26, 2018 10:01:50 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 10:01:50 GMT
What, no 100% tax relief? Maybe we should leave Europe...
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iPace
Dec 24, 2018 21:54:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 21:54:29 GMT
Saw a very satisfying video earlier where one had its arse handed to it by an RS3. Petrol power ruled that one!
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