|
|
Post by PG on May 29, 2018 20:42:55 GMT
Maybe recuperating from surgery and having to much time on your hands makes you morose - or is that philosophical?
I remember the 1970's. One of the many things we were told - in amongst paperless offices, flying cars etc - was that the seas were a bountiful source of unlimited food for humankind. Hunger would be solved by fishing and fish related products. Not just for humans. Farm animals would eat fishmeal. And here we are 40 years later and there was an item on the news tonight about pollution in the Galapagos Islands. Plastic has washed up on the beaches and the seas are polluted. Since David Attenborough made it a public issue last year, plastic in the seas has become big news. Plus we have over-fishing of stocks everywhere. It seems to me that as well as fucking up a great deal of the land surfaces of the planet, we've done it to the seas as well.
And to me this is nothing about climate change (whether you believe or not). This is about there being way too many of us crammed onto the planet, producing way too much rubbish, requiring far too much land to produce food. Even if we in the "West" stop dumping plastic in the seas, do we think that the developing world will stop. Of course not.
I also read about food shortages (as usual) in sub-Saharan Africa. In 1984 - Bandaid's year - the population of Ethiopia was 39.5 million. Today it is 102 million.
Will we ever learn? It's people that fuck up the earth. Too many people. Way, way too many people.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 30, 2018 7:41:15 GMT
I don't agree there's too many people, it's just resources are unequally distributed. This planet can comfortably support all the people who live on it and more.
In 1985, the year of Live Aid, the population of Africa was 550 million and we saw heart-wrenching pictures of starving kids - the Continent couldn't feed itself we thought, and there's no way it could support any more people. Today the population there is 1.3 billion - there's still the occasional famine but by and large an extra 800 million people are being fed and watered. Africa isn't the basket case it was and now has some of the fastest growing cities and economies.
What we do have to do is stop so much single use plastics being dumped into landfill or released into the seas.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 8:06:14 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by PG on May 30, 2018 10:42:33 GMT
I saw your thread about him but was yet to comment on that. I can see the logic that measured statistically - as that is what he is doing - the word has improved in terms of the measures that we can measure (or that he chooses to measure) - life expectancy, GDP / capita, birth rates, absolute poverty rates etc etc. And so by a measure of statistics, we all have nothing to worry about. But then most statistics can be viewed in two ways - and your viewpoint rather depends at what way you come at them from. See any political argument - they are all using the same base statistics to argue from.... See these sites for example Population Matters - for a different view on population Foot Print - to see how people's ecological footprint differs v the sustainable limits of their country So in essence I guess this is another political debate - which is why I put it in here. For if we think that the world's population is too large and unsustainable we can find statistics to show that. And if we think that it is not, ditto.... |
|
|
|
Post by Tim on May 30, 2018 11:35:16 GMT
We've had my brother in law staying for about 5 of the last 6 weeks, the last 2 weeks with his 18 month old daughter and last week but one with his partner.
I've noticed that our cans/plastic recycling bin and paper/cardboard bin have both filled up incredibly quickly.
Normally the cans/plastic one is, at most, a third full when it goes out once a month and the other one is rarely full to the brim.
It's not that we buy packaging-free products but I think more the contrast with what we and him are buying, e.g. fizzy drinks, energy drinks, plastic packaged food, etc.
At least he's recycling what he can though, many people don't appear to care.
|
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on May 30, 2018 18:02:26 GMT
The thought of family staying for extended periods fills me with dread. 😩
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 7:55:38 GMT
I do agree that we'd be better if numbers were lower and/or at least not increasing. But the population matters site is extrapolating to a worst case that the UN does not predict. The solid line on their chart is the UN's prediction - that there will be an increase, but that it will level off. The issues of where the increase will occur is covered at length in the book, and in a way that seems entirely plausible. His conclusion is that it is the first world that is the cause of the vast majority of pollution, and I think that this is backed up convincingly. It's not, as he says, that they can't live like we do, but that we can't.
And the conclusion that everything is alright is not one that he reaches. I'd read it - there's way too much to summarise here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tim on May 31, 2018 13:06:11 GMT
The thought of family staying for extended periods fills me with dread. 😩
The novelty has worn off although when he was here on his own it wasn't too bad but in our mid/late 40s and with no kids now having someone else in the house for an extended period is odd and distracting.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 31, 2018 13:59:18 GMT
The thought of family staying for extended periods fills me with dread. 😩
The novelty has worn off although when he was here on his own it wasn't too bad but in our mid/late 40s and with no kids now having someone else in the house for an extended period is odd and distracting.
Tell me about it - we've had my sister-in-law stay with us for a number of extended periods following relationship breakdowns. I'm generally sympathetic but the other day when my missus said to me; "I've had a long chat today with P****y and she's really not happy...", my only comment was to tell her to get back on the phone and tell her to make it work this time! I need to change the locks. |
|
