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Post by Big Blue on Feb 18, 2019 10:20:24 GMT
Seems a few politicians in the Labour Party think that the party is not what it could be.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 18, 2019 10:30:48 GMT
Seems a few politicians in the Labour Party think that the party is not what it could be. If it removed Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell from the front bench it would go a long way towards making them electable again.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 18, 2019 10:31:01 GMT
Interesting, this is probably only the start of the exodus and not just from Labour
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 18, 2019 10:32:06 GMT
If only a few Tories would do the same. Perhaps they could even join forces...perish the thought in today's tribal political environment.
I do not know how Labour puts up with St Jeremy the Motionless, Shameless Bilge and the Poundland Lenin (a recent apt description of John McDonnell). They are such awful politicians.
I thought this comment by Philip Stevens in the FT summed up their worldview well:
“To put it bluntly, Mr Corbyn comes from a hard left ideological tradition that has never lent much weight to individual liberty. This brand of socialism counts tractor production figures ahead of what its supporters regard as bourgeois measures of personal freedom.”
And as for the Tories, Anna Soubry put it well when she said that the ERG were not Conservatives and should just sod off to UKIP where they belong.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 18, 2019 10:52:24 GMT
Probably more likely that an ERG party will splinter from the Tories and then your left with hopefully a sensible bunch of Conservatives with whom you can place a vote.
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Post by Tim on Feb 18, 2019 11:33:46 GMT
Nah, I think the ERG mob are too arrogant to bugger off on their own - they will keep hectoring until everyone around them understands that their world view is correct and falls into line.
We desperately need some voices of reason in the centre ground though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 12:12:44 GMT
Some decent centre policies might go a long way towards creating a credible opposition. I would very much like to see that, much like many of us most likely. Corbyn and his ilk have given the Tories more hail mary's than at any time I can think of.
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 18, 2019 12:39:16 GMT
Quite so.
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Post by Tim on Feb 18, 2019 13:05:27 GMT
Reading a bit more about it and this struck me as being a tad innaccurate and, perhaps, symptomatic of where our politics is going wrong:-
Laura Parker, national coordinator of grassroots Labour campaign Momentum said "..........They offer no concrete solutions, no new ideas and have no support amongst the public," she added.
I'd say on that last point she's 100% wrong and the public do have support for sensible, centreist policies. It's just that the politically motivated organisations behind the parties have less interest than ever in listening to views that don't tally with their own.
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Post by johnc on Feb 19, 2019 8:48:18 GMT
I have long respected Chuka Umunna and I think he could front up a centre party very well.
The biggest problem any new party has in the UK is the long history of the two party system and first past the post. Proportional representation would allow smaller parties to grow and play a bigger part in our politics because voters wouldn't feel they had to revert to one of the large parties at election time to prevent their votes being wasted.
I am certainly ready for a new centre party although I will probably continue to vote for my LibDem MP because it keeps the other numpties out and as a local politician she is as good as any I have met in the past.
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Post by PG on Feb 19, 2019 8:49:34 GMT
Well the first test for the "Magnificent Seven" will be to see if they are as good as their word. They want a second vote on Brexit. So are they going to resign their setas and have by-elections to get re-elected as their new "party"? No? Thought not.
Of course our electoral systems of FPTP is designed to kill small parties or new parties. A cosy cabal of Labour and Conservatives (and SNP in Scotland) is "best" for us, each having a go every few years and keeping the gravy train running and the troughs on board full.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 9:31:22 GMT
They (All parties tbh) tend to consider public decisions in their own favour. Much like the decision of those who wanted Brexit. No style of exit was suggested on the ballot paper which imho, suggests Cameron did not believe he would 'lose', hence his jumping ship soon after. Corbyn and his cabal refusing to comply with the world definition of anti-semitism too, a "We know best" style that had to lead to a backwards step. All parties are saying that "xyz" style of brexit is "Not what the public voted for". Of course they are free (In their own minds) to decide what we voted for as it was not on the ballot paper.
One of the seven said something quite sensible for an MP when he said we need to get a new style of government and political leadership because this one is past it's sell by date.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 19, 2019 9:41:45 GMT
I don't want to vote Conservative due to the Brexit mess and certainly don't want to vote Labour in their current format. LibDebs seem a waste of space so I'm certainly ready to entertain a new party at the next GE.
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 19, 2019 10:21:28 GMT
I don't want to vote Conservative due to the Brexit mess and certainly don't want to vote Labour in their current format. LibDebs seem a waste of space so I'm certainly ready to entertain a new party at the next GE. My thoughts precisely.
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Post by ChrisM on Feb 19, 2019 12:26:02 GMT
I don't want to vote Conservative due to the Brexit mess and certainly don't want to vote Labour in their current format. LibDebs seem a waste of space so I'm certainly ready to entertain a new party at the next GE. My thoughts precisely. And mine
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Post by Tim on Feb 19, 2019 13:15:37 GMT
Mine too which is why I emphasised the 'no public support' bit from the Labour mouthpiece.
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Post by PG on Feb 19, 2019 16:39:23 GMT
At the moment the Severn are basically a New Labour Blairite continuity group. Hardly forward looking.more aching for the return of the good old days. Pro EU. Pro migration. Pro globalisation. Pro tax and spend.
So to be different they need to come out and say what policies (apart from Brexit and antisemitism) that will be different to labour.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 17:36:07 GMT
I may be being overly simplistic here because politics ain't really something that I'm all that interested in but it seems to me that politicians no longer explain what they're doing well and instead spend all their energy shouting about what the other lot are doing badly. It's like watching two gangs of apes shitting into their own hands and flinging it at each other.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 17:47:07 GMT
That may just be the best definition of politics "as we know it" for a looooong time.
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Post by michael on Feb 20, 2019 8:53:51 GMT
I don't want to vote Conservative due to the Brexit mess and certainly don't want to vote Labour in their current format. LibDebs seem a waste of space so I'm certainly ready to entertain a new party at the next GE. I will be voting Conservative at the next election (will it be summer or autumn?) because the parties values of small state, free markets and capitalism align most closely with my own. Brexit has been a mess but that is down to fare more than just the Tories. Individuals from across the political spectrum including those in the EU have all had a role to play in the situation.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 20, 2019 11:25:24 GMT
So it gets more interesting, 3 Conservative MP's also jumping ship. They could get some decent traction for sure
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Post by michael on Feb 20, 2019 11:33:15 GMT
They need about 30 more to take over the SNP as the third party.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 20, 2019 11:38:45 GMT
They need about 30 more to take over the SNP as the third party. Wee Jimmie Krankie will be shitting in her boots.
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 20, 2019 13:03:15 GMT
If they form a party, I will join it immediately.
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Post by michael on Feb 20, 2019 13:43:12 GMT
I imagine a TIG London mayor would stand a chance. That said, aside from a second referendum it's difficult to know what their policies on anything are.
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Post by PetrolEd on Feb 20, 2019 15:04:01 GMT
That'll do for a start
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 20, 2019 15:42:26 GMT
I expect them to be removed at the first by-election and sink into obscurity.
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Post by Tim on Feb 20, 2019 15:46:29 GMT
I expect them to be removed at the first by-election and sink into obscurity. Yes but what the left wing Labour bods possibly aren't remembering is that some of the candidates, e.g. Luciana Berger, were elected by the constituents (not just the Momentum portion) and stood on a fairly moderate platform under the Labour umbrella. Just because the frothing left don't like them doesn't mean that the remaining 100k of the electorate feel the same.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Feb 20, 2019 16:50:49 GMT
I expect them to be removed at the first by-election and sink into obscurity. Yes but what the left wing Labour bods possibly aren't remembering is that some of the candidates, e.g. Luciana Berger, were elected by the constituents (not just the Momentum portion) and stood on a fairly moderate platform under the Labour umbrella. Just because the frothing left don't like them doesn't mean that the remaining 100k of the electorate feel the same. Don't underestimate the tribal nature of your average Labour voter. Stick a red rosette on a pig and they'll vote for it.
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Post by Tim on Feb 20, 2019 17:01:00 GMT
I agree and it works both ways, how else do you account for Rees Mogg getting elected?
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