2017 race 14: Singapore discussion thread

I reckon it is not too late to change their minds at some stage but cannot see it happening. It appears that Fernando's constant embarrassment comments and suggesting he will leave have struck home and Renault are likely to improve too. The McLaren has a good chassis and they could end up doing just as well as Red Bull which would move them right up the order.

Well, Red Bull didn't quite manage to hold onto fastest times. Maybe Ferrari, like M-B have a quali mode that gives them sufficient extra power to negate the RB's handling advantage.... except that M-B always seem to struggle at Singapore. Would have thought that by now, they would have worked out why.

I also find it odd that there is a 2 week gap until the next race in Malaysia... it's only a short flight between SIN and KUL (under an hour) so back-to-back races would have made much more sense IMHO. It would also have made the teams think twice about staying on European time in Singapore, would love to have seen how many would have chosen to put their body clocks on local time in Singapore and stayed that way for Malaysia, and how many would have adjusted between the races, but certainly for now, we'll never know.

Hopefully we will have a decent race tomorrow although with the limited overtaking opportunities, I somehow doubt it

Well...

Vettel didn't need to be so agressive, he was fighting Max, who isn't in contention for the championship, oh well, his loss and now Hamilton is a clear win ahead, going onto tracks which suit the Mercedes.

The championship is now Hamiltons to lose.

I turned it off after the first corner incident after it became apparent that Seb wouldn't be able to continue. At least I saw Arsenal perform respectably at the Bridge.

Seb at "fault" for his aggressive start strategy; Kimi's start was unbelievable: he found traction where it wasn't and ultimately that led to the touch as Max looked to avoid contact with Seb. Had to feel for Alonso who made a fabulous start and took the outside line only to be collected by a wayward Kimi. I didn't fancy that anyone would get near Da Ham in the wet anyway and yes, fair play he should have one hand on the title now.

The stewards put it down as a racing incident, no action taken.

It does nothing to repair the reputation of F1 either, some drivers get punished for causing an accident, others get away with it. Tail, dog etc.

What I could ask for is a consistent exemplar for drivers and not the ...."but it's OK if your name is Vettel" method. Time to demonstrate a little backbone and enforce the rules, when someone gets a minor slap on the wrist for this kind of conduct it makes the rules look pathetic and by inference, the sport/business/club for the boys.

Raikonnen had a fantastic start and Max was justifiably trying to avoid Vettel. Seb should have made a less aggressive chop considering the conditions, he is after all not a rookie. Kimi was already ahead but overlapping Max when the contact happened. Basically there are two problems there, the inside was always going to close to Kimi but he put himself in that position while Max did not deviate from his line. Seb made an overly aggressive chop for the conditions. These are well seasoned competitors and had no excuse for taking Ferrari out of the race with stupid moves where time would have allowed the red cars to maintain the advantage over Mercedes. I do not think the championship is over by a long chalk but another day in the office like that for the Ferrari drivers will make the job harder than it needs to be. At this rate Ferrari would be better of chopping these two in for Max and Hulkenberg.

I also thought Kimi could have moved left to avoid contact, it looks like both Ferrari's were aiming towards the same bit of track. Easy to make such judgements with the benefit of a reply mind.

Basically it's like the F1 equivalent of three cars going into one merging lane and nobody wants to give way...

All three have some culpability to a certain extent, so I think "racing incident" seems about right.

Max did all he could and was an innocent third party. Max has had his issues but frankly the weather/track conditions and the first corner rule should have seen both red cars being more circumspect. These are both world champions fcol, they have the experience to behave better and they did not. Kimi is guilty of a less serious offence than Seb but their idiocy took out an innocent Max and runed the race for everyone while costing their team big time. Racing incident? Not a chance.

For me the start was mainly a racing incident. It wasn’t like a one-on-one battle where someone deliberately swerved into someone. Vettel couldn’t have known that Raikkonen was fast accelerating to make it three-wide. I have no issue with Raikkonen’s move; it wasn’t overtly risky, he still had ample room to his left. It just unfortunate that Vettel started to move to the left, just as Raikkonen started to come slightly right. Verstappen was evidently watching Vettel, but Raikkonen’s start quite simply caught both of them out.

If one said that blame had to be apportioned, I would say that Verstappen was the most to blame. When cars are three-wide like that, the person in the middle never wins. I’ve seen this countless times in motorsport when they get three-wide a whole lot more, NASCAR and IndyCar. Especially in NASCAR on corner entry, the person on the inside can shove the middle car up the track. The car on the outside can take a less acute angle into the turn. The guy in the middle has no benefit; he can be squeezed, nudged, and will simply lose out. Raikkonen was coming fast, and Vettel didn’t exactly swerve ridiculously in the context of what we’ve seen at the starts in the past.

Verstappen is a fantastic talent, but I’m afraid there is a common denominator here. As Brundle said in commentary over the weekend, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is if you keep colliding, you lose. Verstappen was a bit naughty with Vettel at Silverstone, collided with Ricciardo at Spa, collided with Massa at Monza, and collided again at Singapore. Race craft isn’t just about overtaking and defending at any cost. It’s about having the foresight and intelligence to realise when something will go wrong, and backing out and trying again on the next lap. Alonso is the best at this, and even Hamilton who used to unnecessarily stick his nose in where it wasn’t wanted has developed a more cautious way of racing, whilst still remaining aggressive. I'm not saying that Verstappen should roll out the red carpet and start dithering over passing. However, with some of his recent collisions, it’s been blatantly obvious what will happen. 

If we want to start a conversation about this European blocking and chopping, we can do so. However, it would be unfair to target one driver’s slight swerve at the start, because it happens frequently through the field. If one watches the start of the 2011 Japanese GP, Vettel’s block on Button was wholly unacceptable. Imo, the direction from Charlie Whiting is slightly skewed here. Whiting takes the view that blocking and swerving at the start is more acceptable, because of the added adrenaline and unusual situations that drivers experience at the start. I can concur with that to a degree; however, with all the over-zealous stewarding over the years, it is surprising that the more blatant chopping hasn’t been penalised.

Presumably Verstappen is hot property, but with the Scuderia? Verstappen collided with both Ferrari’s at Spa last year, he had handbags with Vettel at Mexico last year, they again collided at Silverstone, and of course Singapore occurred. If the rumours that Verstappen has already signed some sort of agreement with Ferrari come true, would he become the teammate of Vettel? Oh dear!

Hamilton judged the whole race so well. His start was great, immediately passing Ricciardo. He must have seen the smashed up cars of Raikkonen and Verstappen. It would have been very easy in that situation to drive over-cautiously and slow down, to avoid getting clouted. However, as in many forms of racing, try to shoot for a gap and get out of the mess behind. It so almost worked for Alonso; it was a shame to see him get spun. He tried to continue, but naturally, the data read-outs weren’t too great with a mangled sidepod and the floor torn-up.

Hamilton’s pace on worn intermediates was outstanding. I couldn’t really understand why Mercedes didn’t pit Hamilton after the second Safety Car period. It turned out he didn’t need new tyres, he still comfortably dropped Ricciardo once again on the restart. The race pace of the Mercedes was very strong on Friday, so it wasn't surprising to see Hamilton lighting up the sectors on a dry track. It would have been interesting to see Ricciardo's pace without his gearbox issue, but even before that, the extent of the Mercedes pace over Red Bull was surprising, after the latter were so good on Friday. 

Palmer deserves credit for his drive in Singapore. He overtook a much faster Mercedes in those changeable conditions and didn’t put a wheel wrong. If he had demonstrated that raw pace and race pace earlier in the year, perhaps Renault would have retained him. 

I’m not sure about the Honda switch to Toro Rosso. On the one hand, Toro Rosso will have lower expectations, they don’t expect to win. On the other hand, the pressure of McLaren demanding a winning power unit should have resulted in Honda making whatever changes necessary, including transferring all development in the UK. I maintain that Honda made the terrible error of developing the unit in Japan, not utilising the best talent in the UK from the outset. Sadly, it is very hard to catch up with these current engine regulations. And even if Honda do catch up, with the token system gone, Mercedes and Ferrari can more freely develop even more powerful engines for 2018. So matching the benchmark 2017 engines won’t be good enough, but are Honda heading anywhere near that, and reliably?