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Post by alf on Sept 4, 2017 14:42:55 GMT
From this month's edition... The idea of a £50k Ferrari brought comments like Cat D, leggy, LHD - and, worse - Mondial!
It does not seem so long ago that £15k bought a decent Mondial, £20k ish a decent 308, high 20's a 328, and 355's that were neither Cat D, leggy, nor LHD started below £40k if you were lucky. I (vaguely) know someone who bought a blue 355 for well under £40k - and initially mercilessly tracked it as he saw it as a "budget" ferrari. And even more recently, manual 360's were available from £35k up.
Now £50k is mentioned as a sort of offhand joke - where on earth will it end? It grates me as I always saw myself sticking something along the lines of a tidy 328 in the garage in my old age as a sunday toy, and had more recently mused on a manual 360 as a trackday and sunday car. No longer!!!
Of course, by the time I am retired, 328's, 355's, 360's, 430's, and other models I covet may be relatively sensible money again - but it does not look a bubble about to burst any time soon, and the strength of V8 residuals recently suggests I'm not the only one in the "get one while you can" camp...
A shame, for those of us who want to enjoy these things as cars, not investments...
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Post by michael on Sept 4, 2017 15:38:05 GMT
Is the problem that the market for these things is global and a new generation of rich are snapping them up?
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Post by Blarno on Sept 4, 2017 16:08:26 GMT
I don't think 'Mondial' and 'decent' have ever been used in the same sentence before.
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 5, 2017 9:28:11 GMT
I don't think 'Mondial' and 'decent' have ever been used in the same sentence before.  |
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 5, 2017 9:35:49 GMT
I can attest that there are no "cheap" Ferraris in the marketplace at present. I have looked at Scags and about 2 years ago I could have snaffled one for around £60k which was a bit too much so I got the Gorilla. Not a chance of a £60k Scag worth having now. Then I looked at F430s as I'm 50 next year and in light of the investment-game thread I started few weeks ago these could be in the mix (F430 is a better proposition than a 360 as it has a chain cam engine and they're looking pretty unburstable from the Ferrari forums in the US, where lots more owners do higher mileages). Struggling to get under £70k for one of these. I've seen a 456GT for £100k.
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 5, 2017 10:02:42 GMT
As we all know, its not the buying but the on-going maintenance. These things cost a fortune to keep tip top. Buy the best at top money going through the dealer/specialist network seems the safest bit thing to do both financially and in terms of reliability. If I was shopping, I'd be looking at something like a 512TR but at £150k that is big money but should be a good place to put a few quid.
I don't think a manual 360 at 60-80k is big money as its a lot cheaper than many 911's or even a Cayman GT4. About the same money as good NSX's.
348's start at 40k and are rather unappreciated next to a 355 at twice the price. My dad had a 328 GTS back in the 90's and it was a bit of a shitter even in those days so god knows what they feel like now. The 355 was a good car but again I always thought the 911 of the time a much nicer thing to drive.
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Post by johnc on Sept 5, 2017 10:30:26 GMT
I can't help feeling that this is a bubble that will and must burst. Maybe not this year or next but as soon as interest rates start to rise, the balloon will deflate pretty quickly. A lot of fingers are going to get burned.
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Post by michael on Sept 5, 2017 10:38:01 GMT
I can't help feeling that this is a bubble that will and must burst. Maybe not this year or next but as soon as interest rates start to rise, the balloon will deflate pretty quickly. A lot of fingers are going to get burned. Will it though? If these cars are being bought and shipped abroad it's more a supply and demand issue than a bubble. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 5, 2017 11:01:15 GMT
I've been asked to look at funding a lot of these cars lately and the banks see it as great business. Daft buggers don't learn do they. Not that I see a crash as its a world market now but the housing markets slowed considerably and can't see cars far behind. Thing is a lot of people are slow to the uptake and I wouldn't be looking to invest now as theres so much bad news about.
I've been following the price of GT3/4's for the last year and they've seen a slow decline
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Post by michael on Sept 5, 2017 11:52:45 GMT
I've see Cayman prices have firmed up with the introduction of the four pot engines. The last of the 6 cylinder cars are looking quite pricey.
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 5, 2017 12:03:46 GMT
I've see Cayman prices have firmed up with the introduction of the four pot engines. The last of the 6 cylinder cars are looking quite pricey. Ditto the E92 M3 |
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Post by Tim on Sept 5, 2017 12:05:22 GMT
When I bought the M5 the same garage were selling a nice condition 308 for £1k less.
However I'm not sure what 50k miles in 10 years would've done to the 308 and how much it would've cost me!
I'm always shocked at how low the mileage is on the majority of Ferraris and Lamborghinis that are advertised in the mags.
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Post by Martin on Sept 5, 2017 12:53:07 GMT
I've see Cayman prices have firmed up with the introduction of the four pot engines. The last of the 6 cylinder cars are looking quite pricey. They are, especially the GTS Boxster / Cayman, but you can see why. It's pushed the values of the older cars up too, ours definitely hasn't lost anything in the last 12 months, might even have gone up slightly. |
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Post by alf on Sept 5, 2017 13:43:27 GMT
I don't think a manual 360 at 60-80k is big money as its a lot cheaper than many 911's or even a Cayman GT4. About the same money as good NSX's. Don't even mention NSX's - makes me want to weep! They were £15k for a decent one not so long ago, and another one I had a serious hankering for, what with my Ayrton Senna obsession. Did they even cost £60-80k new? And 360's may seem OK for £60-80k to you, but that's double what they were quite recently (a guy who works for me used to work for a Ferrari dealership and was thinking of getting one as an investment, we even drunkenly considered going halves at one stage, that was not very many years ago) so they fail the ALF value test. I'm more with JohnC - I feel this must be a bubble, for all but the most collectible. I suspect values of a lot of cars that are not in great shape (and not economical to put back into such shape), or just not especially rare, have been overly inflated. I suppose the one good thing is that newer sports cars / supercars are selling well, and are usually much better cars overall to actually use. I can't see the inflated values thing being for everything nice, forever. There are some logical exceptions like the Cayman/Boxster thing - where a lot of people will rightly want the 6 pot - but hopefully still some automotive bargains in years to come! |
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Post by Tim on Sept 5, 2017 13:52:34 GMT
It has to be a bubble and its slowly deflating
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Post by ChrisM on Sept 5, 2017 21:07:30 GMT
- but it does not look a bubble about to burst any time soon, and the strength of V8 residuals recently suggests I'm not the only one in the "get one while you can" camp... A shame, for those of us who want to enjoy these things as cars, not investments... Get yourself a Mustang..... |
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Post by Martin on Sept 7, 2017 8:13:53 GMT
Maybe the bubble is starting to burst already. A 993 GT2 has just sold at auction for £775k, which is a lot, but well under the expectation and £1m less than one sold at the same auction last year.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 8:53:59 GMT
Still a fucking stupid price, though.
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Post by Martin on Sept 7, 2017 8:55:26 GMT
Still a fucking stupid price, though. Oh, completely. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 8:59:35 GMT
Comparing it with what you could buy new for that price, the question 'why?' is so surplus to requirements it amazes me.
I think fingers will be burned too, but if you can shell out that sum on such a thing it's unlikely to be you that gets hurt. The people who always get stung are those who are stretching to get something rather more modest and that realistically are 'investing' in rather too heavily.
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 7, 2017 9:10:02 GMT
Don't know, there's only so many and if I was a Euro Lottery winner it'd be pretty high up on my list of cars to buy
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 13:35:38 GMT
I've started getting emails from a group that flogs collective investments in classic Italian cars. Trust me, that is not a good sign.
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 29, 2017 10:33:32 GMT
Well prices of Scagliettis is softening: several on AT at around £75k.
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Post by Martin on Oct 29, 2017 10:51:23 GMT
Why are you wasting time on here....you should be heading up to Leicestershire to buy the blue/tan one!
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Post by Big Blue on Oct 29, 2017 19:54:29 GMT
Why are you wasting time on here....you should be heading up to Leicestershire to buy the blue/tan one! Indeed. Looks super. Only added this week. I’m not 50 till May though. I’m hoping for the arse to fall out of that market without affecting my share portfolio. Actually my shares are probably more important at my age.... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 16:49:07 GMT
Cars as investments have been in a cyclical motion for a lot of years, F1's and XJ 220's in the day where 'investors' were crying over their spilt tears and sobbing that they simply could not afford to complete the purchase and should get their money (deposit) back. It is a risk business and if you gets burned you are supposed to be grown up and deal with it. No idea how many got anything back or were forced to buy themselves out of that deal.
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Post by Roadrunner on Feb 16, 2018 22:49:21 GMT
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