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Post by ChrisM on Aug 11, 2017 19:17:39 GMT
Posted early in case I forget
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Post by Sav on Aug 27, 2017 17:12:10 GMT
Hamilton did 340 km/h without a slipstream yesterday; Alonso achieved the same speed down the Kemmel straight thanks to a slipstream from Vandoorne. If that doesn’t summarise McLaren’s problem, I’m not sure what else does.
Perez was bizarre today; I can understand the first contact with Ocon. On the opening lap Perez had a car to his left, so he couldn’t have gone further in that direction to give Ocon more space. However, the second contact was just unforgivable. Perez evidently knew that Ocon was partly alongside, but chose to move further right to deter the Frenchman from overtaking.
Both Force India drivers have made errors in wheel-to-wheel contact. In Baku it was Ocon’s fault. Generally, however, Perez seems to be the predominant problem. In Canada his refusal to let the much faster Ocon through cost the team valuable points, and today looked so deliberate. There isn’t a solution, because Perez brings significant sponsorship to the team, therefore it’s far easier to blame both drivers and ban them from racing. It isn’t really solving the issue, because a young charging Ocon has turned up on the scene and has been frequently faster than Perez – and it’s a fact that Perez can’t seemingly handle.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 20:05:21 GMT
Ocon is a future winner no doubt, Perez is behaving in the same manner as Alonso when Hamilton first showed up. It will end badly for one of them but with Perez and his backers it would seem the team will release Ocon. What other method is there to prevent further 'contact'? Ocon has had the upper hand for a while and it would be a shame for Force India who are punching well above their budget, to lose out through petulance. I hope Perez is shown the door but not likely. Alonso spoke of receiving 'offers' plural. If the team (McLaren) do not get Mercedes engines for next year I see Fernando going. What will that leave for McLaren?  |
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Post by Sav on Aug 28, 2017 22:46:32 GMT
You mentioned the key point. Perez won’t be the driver to leave because Force India needs the Mexican’s financial backing. Similarly, Marcus Ericsson won’t be the one leaving Sauber after a few heated moments with Wehrlein, because Ericsson brings significant backing to Sauber – something that Sauber desperately needs. Ericsson is yesterday’s news, but as long as those cheques keep rolling in – he’s safe. Look at Felipe Nasr, the bank that had sponsored him stopped doing so….and it was bye bye!
This isn’t a new issue by any means. The unfortunate truth is that unless young drivers are financed by the teams, they will need at least 1.5 million euros to compete in F2. F3 isn’t much cheaper. F2 has too many coasters who in reality aren’t good enough for F1. If you’re spending more than two seasons in F2, the F1 dream reality is already over – at least getting to a top seat. Charles Leclerc is evidently an amazing driver, and Ferrari is lucky to have such a talent. It is unfortunate that not too many really stand out like this in F2 anymore. The early years of GP2 featured some great drivers; Rosberg, Hamilton, Kovalainen. It is unfortunate that the series no longer produces many F1-ready standouts anymore.
Ocon hasn’t exactly blown away Perez, but he has been faster on a number of occasions. Perez sometimes has stronger race pace, partly due to superior tyre management. But this is why Perez won’t be hired by a top team again, nobody wants to a hire a tyre conservationist – teams want to hire someone with the ultimate raw speed as a priority. Perez wasn’t particularly impressive at McLaren, colliding with Button in Bahrain and with Raikkonen at Monaco in 2013. Perez also erratically moved under braking during the 2014 Canadian GP, causing Massa to crash into him. Perez has stubbornness to his race craft, which is at odds with his specialty in tyre management. One might think he would be intelligent enough to let the race come to him, rather than darting about everywhere like a Formula Ford driver. Force India should be especially mad at Perez for this year’s Canadian GP, costing Ocon the chance to fight for a podium. Over team radio it sounded like Perez had hijacked the team’s strategy, they wanted Ocon to challenge Ricciardo, but Perez wasn’t having it. Perez’s road block for Ocon allowed Vettel to catch up and pass both of them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 10:27:32 GMT
There lies the rub, talent is being replaced by sponsorship. Perhaps these formulae should have a series of tests where current or ex F1 drivers should give the OK or not to drivers so that only those with ability get through. Considering the current status of F1 I cannot see it happening. With the development of simulators it should be possible to put drivers through the wringer in a large number of scenarios where contact has been made through driver error, Crashjohn at Monaco for example. There must be a way to sort the wheat from the chaff.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 29, 2017 12:26:34 GMT
There must be a way to sort the wheat from the chaff. Not if they bring in sufficient money, which is at the heart of the issue. (look at Maldonado at Williams for another example) ... and the FIA would be on very shaky ground if they tried to impelement anything that ruled a driver out becasue he was deemed to have insufficient talent |
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 29, 2017 12:29:35 GMT
I don't blame Perez totally, there was no need for Ocons nose to be where it was. He didn't have the run to get him through Eau Rouge so should have sat back and made an easy pass on Perez down the Kemmel.
As soon as Ocon pulled out I shouted "what are you doing", that wall comes out bloody quickly and would always end in tears. It might have been dangerous by Perez to have squeezed him but I'd have done the same, it was a gap that was always going to close.
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Post by Tim on Aug 29, 2017 13:11:13 GMT
I still think that its a ridiculous when you're watching the, alleged, pinnacle of motorsport and half the drivers are only there because they bring money, rather than being the best in the world.
I know its been like this for a very long time, still irritates though.
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Post by johnc on Aug 29, 2017 13:55:12 GMT
I still think that its a ridiculous when you're watching the, alleged, pinnacle of motorsport and half the drivers are only there because they bring money, rather than being the best in the world. I know its been like this for a very long time, still irritates though. I think it's easy to say some of the drivers are only there because of the money they bring but the bottom line is that they are still very good drivers. There are probably better drivers out there than some of those racing but we are talking about those who might squeeze another tenth or 2 of a second out of a car, not a few seconds per lap. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 19:45:53 GMT
Not entirely about finding speed per se, sorting wheat from chaff should be used to sort the bloody dangerous, as part of the superlicense. Those new to F1 would benefit from some time getting judged by an experienced driver and coached where they need it. Massa was coached at Ferrari by Michael Schumacher after all and gained a lot from it. How can it be safe to chuck a new driver into an F1 car in the first weekend and hope they do well? The talent is out there imho, it needs to get to F1 rather than uncle Freds nephiew because uncle Fred just happens to be a bigwig in some company somewhere that is owed a favour from some other company in corsets or something.
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Post by Sav on Aug 29, 2017 22:33:47 GMT
I think the proliferation in pay drivers is partly down to increasing costs. Autosport a few years ago produced a guide to competing in motorsport, and the cost of competing in the junior formulas is eye-watering. Unless a team funds a driver through their young driver programme, it’s very difficult for youngsters without private backing.
John is right. In reality even the midfield F2 drivers are good drivers in isolation. However, F2 is supposed to be a feeder series for the next generation to show their talents in front of the F1 circus. There are too many drivers on the grid because of vast sums of money bought, and F3 is no different. Lance Stroll still looks lost, he didn’t follow in Max Verstappen’s footsteps and immediately impress in F1 after competing in F3. Considering the revenue and profits that F1 makes, some of it should be invested in reforming the young driver system. Now that F2 is officially sanctioned by the FIA, this is now a possibility. It’s only in F1’s interest, because it doesn’t want a grid mostly consisting of pay drivers, ultimately harming the credibility of the sport. Hopefully Liberty will make meaningful changes to F1’s revenue distribution to help the sport overall.
I would make F2 compulsory for competing in F1. This would help make F2 the definitive feeder series, because at present it could be argued that F2 isn’t the best feeder series, with great drivers coming from F3 and Formula V8 3.5 in recent years. Due to different chassis’ and engines, European F3 isn’t as affordable it could be. I propose standardising both areas, a junior formula needn’t be place for developing engines. There should be a global spec F3 car so that a common standard can be applied across the world, for all F3 championships. With F1, it’s a shame that new teams find it very difficult to enter. In the past, the likes of Minardi gave chances to the likes of Alonso and Webber. They impressed, so progressed to better teams. Unless a young driver is already part of an F1 driver programme, it’s very difficult to get on the grid. As discussed previously if costs were slashed it would allow more privateers to enter, and there has been a pleasure in seeing the sport’s best wrestle awful cars. It could put a few hidden talents on the map.
Ocon deserved space with the second tussle with Perez. He got a better exit coming out of La Source, and had a right to race his teammate before Eau Rouge. Note that Webber didn’t put Alonso in the wall when they both had that amazing exchange in 2012. If there’s someone partially alongside like that, you can’t just keep turning right and pretend like another car isn’t there. I agree with the point that Ocon would have been wiser to wait until the Kemmel straight to overtake, especially after the first contact on lap one. However, running side-by-side between La Source and Eau Rouge isn’t uncommon, and Ocon had the right to get partially alongside his teammate on the straight.
One sees this European blocking in junior formula too; where the driver being pursued tries to force another driver off in a straight line, or into the wall. When the pursuing driver needs to brake in a straight line, there’s a problem. Perez is always one to preach about safety, but in practice has made some silly manoeuvres in recent years. Just on Friday Perez accused Magnussen for dangerously blocking him in Practice 1. It’s apparently safer to drill your teammate into the wall!
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