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Post by ChrisM on Dec 23, 2020 15:59:15 GMT
Rather than carrying on in the Abu Dhabi thread, let's start a new thread to discuss events between the end of the 2020 season and the new 2021 season.
As things stand at the moment, F1 has announced a calendar that starts in Australia on 21 March. I wonder if that will go ahead, although with the benefit of experience, there are almost certainly plans to run the race in the "F1 bubble mode" with no spectators at any of the practice, qualifying or race sessions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 17:03:46 GMT
I'm still hoping for this to be sorted out during the year but that whatever happens, we get through it with our heads out of the gutter. Very much looking forward to F1 and the competition, I've decided to win next year. Oh well, that's doomed me to finish last.......
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Post by Sav on Dec 23, 2020 23:21:36 GMT
Three topics for me.
Nikita Mazepin. I wonder if his seat at Haas will soon become untenable. There has been a negative backslash on social media after Haas confirmed that Mazepin would drive for the team. It doesn't look great for F1. Money talks, it always has in F1, but this is rather different, and it flies in the face of F1's slogans this year.
Testing, and a lot less of it. I think only three days of testing could mean an unpredictable Australian GP. Its true that todays stoppages in testing are not necessarily reliability-related, teams do deliberately run cars out of fuel. But to only have three days means that the teams will still be learning in Melbourne. I don't see the value in such limited testing. The excessive cost of F1 comes from the R&D into aerodynamics, chassis and the powertrains. Reducing testing to only three days is window dressing. And so are the engine limits. The issue with the powertrains is not the cost of supplying them. We want people racing and cars on-track, not people staying in the garage during practice trying to make their allocation last until Abu Dhabi. I think that testing is still important for young drivers, and they simply aren't getting the opportunities they should do. Nobody is suggesting that testing should go back to being unlimited, like when Schumi would drive around Fiorano for days on end. The gradual reduction in testing hasn't reduced costs, yet testing keeps being diminished every year.
The Australian GP will be interesting. Its the busiest weekend of the year, with so many different support series at Albert Park. How that works with the bubbles and Covid remains to be seen. V8 Supercars have listed the Australian GP as one of their events in 2021, here's hoping that the weekend goes to plan.
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Post by johnc on Dec 24, 2020 8:01:18 GMT
I think the lack of testing is potentially dangerous and it really serves no purpose restricting it further. It is far better to find out your car has some serious deficiency in the relative safety of a testing session than it is to discover it when surrounded by 20 other cars. It might also allow some of the smaller teams to become a bit more competitive if they can identify problems earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 8:10:55 GMT
Waiting to see how budget caps etc will affect the season, there was talk that the slight reduction in downforce had already been made up so not sure if that will have any affect at all.
RB and TR still have their Honda engines for next year so the real difference will be whatever they manage to get for 2022 and beyond. Whatever the actual engine regs are for 2022.
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Post by PetrolEd on Dec 24, 2020 23:55:52 GMT
Three topics for me. Nikita Mazepin. I wonder if his seat at Haas will soon become untenable. There has been a negative backslash on social media after Haas confirmed that Mazepin would drive for the team. It doesn't look great for F1. Money talks, it always has in F1, but this is rather different, and it flies in the face of F1's slogans this year. Not once his Dad has bought the team which you’d think has got to be a certainty surely
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Post by Sav on Dec 25, 2020 0:13:19 GMT
Hopefully future seasons after 2021 will have more testing. I think at least one more three-day test is needed. It would allow the teams to compare performance compared to the first group test, and allow teething issues to be ironed out. The location of the 2021 test compounds the issue, Bahrain. The teams are going to have to fly all the parts and pieces they think they need. Any accidents could leave them in jeopardy. If a driver crashes in Barcelona on day one, parts can be flown in if needed. I understand why the test is in Bahrain, the weather will be far more representative for the teams. But it will require the teams to hit the ground running from day one, which often doesn’t happen. If Williams faced the 2021 testing scenario in 2019, they would have got barley any laps in prior to Melbourne.
Almost everything will change with the 2022 car, except the powertrain. A change to that is due in 2025 or 2026. I think the engines need to be simpler with MGU-K removed at the very least. People within F1 think that the current PU hasn’t been promoted well enough. According to them it’s brilliant; it just hasn’t been given the right spin. The reality it appeals to no one. If you’re Greta Thunberg, the thermal efficiency isn’t impressive. If you’re a car manufacturer, the technology was too advanced and expensive back in 2014, and now its obsolete with EV’s becoming the new trend. If you’re a race fan, it simply doesn’t deliver the visceral experience that the old engines did. It appears that Alfa Romeo will leave at the end of 2021, Honda too are leaving. It’s about time that F1 had engines again, that excites fans and that racing engine builders can actually build.
There is indeed a slight downforce reduction for 2021, because for the past two years the teams have rejected Pirelli’s proposed new compounds when they have tried them during practice sessions. The downforce has steadily been increasing, but the tyres haven’t been modified to withstand the additional loads. So the only solution has been to reduce downforce, theoretically giving the current compounds an easier time. This is again down to testing. Pirelli have very limited opportunities to test tyres, so it’s not a surprise that the compounds they keep proposing keep being rejected. I welcome the downforce reduction; I just wish it was being done for the right reasons.
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Post by Sav on Dec 25, 2020 0:18:20 GMT
Three topics for me. Nikita Mazepin. I wonder if his seat at Haas will soon become untenable. There has been a negative backslash on social media after Haas confirmed that Mazepin would drive for the team. It doesn't look great for F1. Money talks, it always has in F1, but this is rather different, and it flies in the face of F1's slogans this year. Not once his Dad has bought the team which you’d think has got to be a certainty surely Lets see how bad the situation gets for Haas. I have a feeling Mazepin's seat might become untenable if the backlash continues, and Haas continues to be portrayed in a negative light. I think Haas should find another driver who brings in the required budget.
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Post by Alex on Dec 25, 2020 16:52:58 GMT
Three topics for me. Nikita Mazepin. I wonder if his seat at Haas will soon become untenable. There has been a negative backslash on social media after Haas confirmed that Mazepin would drive for the team. It doesn't look great for F1. Money talks, it always has in F1, but this is rather different, and it flies in the face of F1's slogans this year. Not once his Dad has bought the team which you’d think has got to be a certainty surely Maybe it's the time of year but every mention of his name has me thinking of marzipan!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2020 1:04:28 GMT
What can talk do to reverse the selection? Hardly going to have a year long protest are we? Unless his backers sack him and the funding is lost I cannot see him anything other than turning up for testing and the first race next year.
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Post by Sav on Dec 26, 2020 15:25:30 GMT
Lets see where the #SayNoToMazepin thing on Twitter goes. I always found it strange that he did "private" testing for Mercedes. In plain English, his dad paid a lot of money for him to drive an old-spec Merc to get him F1-ready. Come to think of it, Mazepin would have been in F1 by now if it wasn't for the super license rules. Maybe Mazepin's dad should have bunged a load of rubles to the FIA to get the rules fixed?
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 5, 2021 21:23:42 GMT
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Post by Sav on Jan 5, 2021 23:32:47 GMT
The only silver lining is that Bahrain is only a week later. So there won't be much of a delay for the season starting. Hopefully a decisive decision is taken on Melbourne. I felt sorry for them last year to organise the whole event and construct the circuit, only for the weekend to be cancelled.
V8 Supercars has a backup, racing at a nearby track called Sandown. I fear 2021 will be another year of cancellations and schedule reshuffles.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 6, 2021 12:18:10 GMT
I fear 2021 will be another year of cancellations and schedule reshuffles. I didn't want to sound too pessimistic pre-Christmas, but I think that this may well turn out to be the case
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 6, 2021 15:17:03 GMT
In MotoGP terms we had the best season in years and that was partly down to the compressed calendar (rider fatigue; bike development; circuits ridden in different seasonal conditions) and partly down to Marc Marquez's early season injury.
F1 would be a lot more interesting if the Mercedes comes out with mismatched wheel bearings or a batch of chocolate pistons to be honest, regardless of the calendar.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 7, 2021 9:49:12 GMT
From the Planet F1 website, 07 Jan 2021, note the use of the word "proposed" as it seems much is still not finalised
Here is the proposed 2021 calendar in full:
March 28 Bahrain Grand Prix April 18 Emilia Romagna/San Marino Grand Prix, Imola May 2 Portuguese Grand Prix, Portimao May 9 Spanish Grand Prix May 23 Monaco Grand Prix June 6 Azerbaijan Grand Prix June 13 Canadian Grand Prix June 27 French Grand Prix July 4 Austrian Grand Prix July 18 British Grand Prix August 1 Hungarian Grand Prix August 29 Belgian Grand Prix September 5 Dutch Grand Prix September 12 Italian Grand Prix September 26 Singapore Grand Prix October 3 Russian Grand Prix October 10 Japanese Grand Prix October 24 United States Grand Prix October 31 Mexican Grand Prix November 7 Sao Paulo Grand Prix November 21 Australian Grand Prix December 5 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix December 12 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix
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Post by Sav on Jan 8, 2021 23:44:13 GMT
I wouldn't mind Imola in Spring. It reminds me of the San Marino GP that used to be in Spring, gorgeous layout, but terrible for F1 cars. Portimao would be a welcome return. It isn't so much that Portimao has loads of overtaking opportunities, it just has the right ones. I would put Turkey as a strong contender too. The drivers didn't like last year's GP because the asphalt wasn't suitable, but the track was a challenge. And no amount of downforce or simulator time helped with it, which was refreshing.
I think not going to China would alleviate some pressure on the teams. With the original calendar, if car performance or reliability for any respective team turns out to be disappointing they probably would have had to wait until Barcelona to bring the upgrades needed. On the flip side, with the travel restrictions now imposed in Europe and Bahrain, they won't be able to ship out new parts to the sole test in Bahrain. Hitting the ground running will be more important than ever. I can't see how the first Grand Prix won't have reliability issues. All those niggles like oil leaks and sensor issues, could crop up in the race itself. In the past, those issues would be solved in the second or third test. But there won't be a second or third test.
The changes to the floor for 2021 are small but significant. It will require enough change for there to be upsets. It always happens with technical changes, some get it wrong and some just read the technical changes more effectively. What I don't think we will see, is a development war. Considering the scale of the 2022 changes, there won't be much point. If the drivers and teams had agreed to the new tyres that Pirelli wanted to bring, the 2021 floor changes wouldn't be needed. Ideally 2021 should have been a year of no aerodynamic changes, so that investment is prioritised where it matters.
The hatred of testing is now acting as a detriment to the sport. Tyres can't be tested anymore like needed, so Pirelli try to come up new solutions that keep getting rejected. With the 2022 change to 18-inch wheels, that will be biggest change to tyres in a long time. Clearly the pandemic will have impacted attempts to test last year, but even without the pandemic, there doesn't seem a desire to test tyres anymore. Even NASCAR and Goodyear do more tyre testing than F1. People internally now regard testing as the route of all evil, but the continual aero adjustments every year cost a lot more than tyre testing. It doesn't need to be unlimited, its something that can be controlled because there is a sole supplier. Disappointed to see the Friday sessions cut to 60 minutes each. That will limit the opportunities that young drivers get to participate in Friday sessions in my view.
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Post by johnc on Jan 9, 2021 9:01:09 GMT
A lot of backwards moves at the moment. It suggests those in charge are flapping a bit not quite sure what to do for the future of the sport. I bet Bernie is glad he is out of it all.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 9, 2021 17:54:21 GMT
^ Do you think the current owners had a plan when they bought Bernie out? If so, is that plan on target because TBH I am not sure where they are going. Making every sport pay-per-view may work in the USA but I'm not sure it works as well in Europe, unless the plan is to be less reliant upon Europe. I hope not because I don't think F1 has the same strong following across North America as it does in many other countries
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 18:02:28 GMT
I believe the 'plan' is to change F1 into some kind of role playing game with actual races and online subs so the profit is maximised. I see fans without means being more and more removed from the picture for that end to be achieved. Even sky is going to be replaced by total control resting in the hands of the current owners. You want to watch F1? You pay and if the first tranche does not make your ar5e bleed beyond comprehension, the second WILL. Honestly? This began with the gnome but is accelerating far beyond this. Lawn mower racing anyone?
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Post by johnc on Jan 9, 2021 18:39:14 GMT
You have to wonder if the sport will still attract the same sponsorship if it makes the move to expensive pay to view and loses more than half its world audience. I pay Sky enough a month and won't be paying them more to watch F1 as a separate subscription. It also annoys me that motorsport snd others I enjoy watching are now being spread over several pay to view providers meaning a real financial shafting if you want to watch everything. This business model definitely has a finite life.
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 12, 2021 11:31:26 GMT
Australia GP 2021 has been postponed until much later in the year - just had the "global" email from Formula One
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Post by Boxer6 on Jan 12, 2021 14:54:44 GMT
Australia GP 2021 has been postponed until much later in the year - just had the "global" email from Formula One Was on the radio news this morning; they said November for Australia now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 14:36:10 GMT
Has anything come of the eco friendly fuel they have been testing?
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 13, 2021 19:37:31 GMT
^ No idea. But the latest info from Formula 1 shows a new TBC Grand Prix on 2 May. Wonder if that's a new country that Trump is establishing for himself??
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Post by ChrisM on Jan 15, 2021 22:06:21 GMT
.. and now Leclerc has Covid, as well as Norris. So that's 5 of 20 drivers from 2020 who have been infected with it
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Post by Sav on Jan 23, 2021 11:26:51 GMT
Interesting topics you guys have mentioned. I think Bernie started to lose influence towards the end of Max Mosley’s tenure, which was exacerbated by Mosley being replaced with Jean Todt. The real issue between both men was the introduction of the V6 powertrain in 2014, Bernie loathed it, Todt was convinced it was brilliant because the new engine would be good for car manufacturers. But in actual fact it wasn’t Todt who put the wheels in motion, it was Mosley. As soon as the V8’s were introduced in 2006, that very year research was commissioned about even smaller hybrid engines. There were many ideas flouted about, including electric motors on both axles to effectively make F1 cars four wheel drive, which was abandoned, and so was the idea about a four cylinder engine.
You then had the arguments in 2008 and 2009 between Mosley and the car manufacturers. 2008 of course being the year of the financial crisis, and the likes of Honda, BMW and Toyota had patchy success but with huge financial commitments at the time. The sport was going in the technical direction the manufacturers wanted, but the budget cap was the sticking point. The people spending $300 million were not going to suddenly start operating within $40 million budgets overnight, todays budget cap is a much more structured and realistic proposal.
I’m not sure that pure pay-per-view works even in America. There is a clear difference in viewing figures between C4 and Sky. Its a similar situation in America with NASCAR. Some races are televised on network television on FOX, others are televised on FS1. The races on FS1 always have fewer viewers. If you took NASCAR off TV and just televised it online, the sport wouldn’t have anywhere near the visibility it currently does. I think it’s the same story with F1. Whilst online streaming has a future, because the regimented structure of TV doesn’t sit with younger audiences, I feel even now F1 is hidden on Sky because it quite simply doesn’t reach the masses like free-to-air. It will be interesting to see the value of F1’s next live UK TV contract. Bernie negotiated a blinder back in 2011, but undeniably the sport has lost viewership now that live free-to-air coverage has been lost. Any prospective bidder would know the current viewership on Sky, and it would surprise me if Sky or anybody else would pay what was paid back in 2011 to the tune of £40 million a year.
The current backdrop is interesting. F1 has its own TV service, with its own production crew for F1.com. I think the sport is trying to be less reliant on broadcasters for F1 coverage, which might be a good idea if televised sport migrates from TV to online. However Bernie made F1 what it was because he organised good TV coverage, which the broadcasters paid handsomely for. It would be optimistic to think that digital outlets will pay what the TV broadcasters have for the past three decades. And that is important, because Liberty is a listed company just like CVC was. So there will be pressure for F1 to financially perform like it had in the past, the new regulations are critical next year. They have to bring new eyeballs because of fairer competition.
The great irony is that Sky and other subscription providers effectively ended mass free-to-air coverage of sport. It is now online that threatens the subscription TV model.
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Post by johnc on Jan 23, 2021 12:06:24 GMT
I think it would be a huge mistake to take F1 online. I dislike watching TV or anything else on a phone or a tablet and I am now at that age where I have to find a pair of glasses for reading small things. I enjoy watching a race on a TV where I can sit down with a drink and relax without my glasses on. I know there are smart TV's that can access the online streaming but the reality is I can't really be bothered. I tried watching Motorsport TV online and it was so glitchy and awkward with different controllers and ages to download that I gave up. The dilution of sport across so many different platforms and pay to view channels is also a massive issue because of the cost and the complexity to the viewer, which will ultimately just reduce the audience numbers further. As Sav says F1 has great audience numbers because it was mostly free to view and you could get Dad and his sons or daughters all sitting around watching a programme and chatting about it which helps draw the younger generation in as an audience too. However if it is made a minority sport with only paying viewers gaining access it will be dead in the water in no time.
Venture capitalists are very greedy people who will want a big return on their investment and they will squeeze their customers as hard as they dare to get every last penny. The broadcasters and streamers are going to have to be very careful they don't overpay and in turn try to squeeze their customers for extra fees because I believe the demand is much more fragile than it might appear.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 12:52:09 GMT
Apparently it is possible to 'port' an internet channel onto a television, even my old Sony Bravia but more likely via something like the fire stick or similar.
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 23, 2021 14:06:53 GMT
I’ve recently binned cable TV and moved to over the air plus NowTV, Amazon Prime and all manner of App-based channels. My girls stopped watching live TV and just dumped their favourite shows on the hard drive and watched them all. Now they can do it on demand. I watch MotoGP on their own app and if we didn’t live in the UK I’d do the same with F1’s app - but Sky’s deal doesn’t allow it over here and other countries’ broadcasters have the same deal.
Given my MotoGP experience I’d suggest the way forward is app-based live races (apps work on TV as well....) and free-to-air highlights or delayed full length race. There’s nothing to stop Amazon Prime buying the rights and making it available on an app.
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