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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 7:20:06 GMT
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Post by Tim on Jun 2, 2017 9:03:01 GMT
I see the coal industry are happy.
That's great, how many jobs do they provide?
Well apparently (in the US) it's less than 50% of those now working in renewables and is in decline.
Hell, even the likes of Exxon and Chevron are unhappy about it.
Still, Trump reckons the world will no longer be laughing at America. I think he's 100% wrong on that.
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Post by grampa on Jun 2, 2017 11:33:20 GMT
Trump reckons the world will no longer be laughing at America. I think he's 100% wrong on that. Haven't they been since he became president? From that Wikipedia article: Many commentators have viewed the withdrawal as indicative of a more general decline in the United States' global influence behind that of China, and reinforcing Angela Merkel's perceived position as Leader of the Free World." The last thing needed is to boost her ego any more - seems like she already sees herself as the boss-of-europe. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 2, 2017 12:43:50 GMT
The irony is that because of all the cheap fracked gas that the US produces now its carbon footprint is falling anyway. The power companies aren't going back to expensive coal generation.
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Post by michael on Jun 2, 2017 12:48:00 GMT
As a percentage of power use doesn't Germany use far more coal than the USA?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 10:46:45 GMT
The German government has been as good as any other at manipulating itself. No flies on them it seems. Merkel being an Oster is showing her true colours but I still think the Grosse European nation is the end game for a lot of people over there.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 3, 2017 19:01:37 GMT
As a percentage of power use doesn't Germany use far more coal than the USA? Not only that they burn lignite (brown coal) which is the dirtiest form of coal, with the least calorific value and the most sulphur and carbon dioxide. Germany is the world's biggest producer, stripping it from the earth in huge open cast mines that look like scenes from hell. |
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Post by PG on Jun 5, 2017 10:05:23 GMT
So the Germans stop nuclear and replace it with even more dirty lignite coal, but make sure that there are lots of solar panels and wind turbines just to make it to look like they have the moral high ground. Cynical? Moi? For me the whole Paris thing is a typical "something must be done" outcome. I'm a great supporter of the environment, but the whole environment, not just this CO2 religious-like mantra. Did Paris address population growth, industrial pollution standards and so on? Of course not. Far too difficult. Let's just pretend the whole issue is CO2. CO2 might be an issue, but it's the result of how we live our life and the number of us that already lead that life or want to lead that life. There's two ways to cut your carbon emissions by 50%. All the people emitting 50% each. Or 50% of the people emitting what they do now. Why do we only ever talk about the former and wanting talk about the latter is not allowed? Here's a statistic that I read last week. It took Ireland 100 years replace the people lost by the potato famine. It took Ethiopia less than 10 years to replace the people lost by the 1980's famine.  |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jun 5, 2017 11:14:28 GMT
The Germans will gradually phase out lignite coal but they will replace it with imported electricity from France's nuclear fleet. Nuclear is undoubtedly low CO2 but is it clean? That argument still rages.
I'm in two minds about the CO2 thing; certainly if we can reduce the amount of man-made CO2 being pumped into the atmosphere than we should do so, it makes sense to err on the side of caution. On the other hand man made climate change is a theory, it's not definitive, albeit the evidence we have seems to point strongly that way. Theories change, are updated and debunked all the time but it would be a major gamble not to act in the hope that this was the case in with climate change.
I really think that Trump is barking up the wrong tree pulling out of the Paris Agreement. Most of the industrialised Western economies are past peak electricity demand as more efficient manufacturing, low energy lighting and appliances, smart metering, and loss of heavy, energy intensive industries continues. Add in cheap gas power generation that produces half the CO2 of coal and the rise of wind and solar means they'll meet the CO2 reduction targets easily enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 11:21:54 GMT
There's a very interesting article about CO2 and food production in this month's Focus. It's an issue I use if challenged about driving a V8 (with gusto).
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Post by Tim on Jun 5, 2017 11:49:50 GMT
There's a very interesting article about CO2 and food production in this month's Focus. It's an issue I use if challenged about driving a V8 (with gusto). You'd just have to trot out the line about the Royal Gala apples sold in Tesco (and no doubt others) that have been air freighted across from New Zealand. How many miles would your V8 have to do to match those emissions - emissions that are released at 35,000 feet, so closer to the problem?
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