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Post by johnc on Nov 22, 2019 9:55:13 GMT
I have just had my first phone call asking me to make a business case for replacing an M3 with a Porsche Taycan. Porsche wanting 7.9%apr and £1320/mth is making it a more marginal calculation than I thought. Residual on a £96K car is £42K according to Porsche. The depreciation is nearly more than the M3 cost!
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Post by Martin on Nov 22, 2019 10:23:21 GMT
I have just had my first phone call asking me to make a business case for replacing an M3 with a Porsche Taycan. Porsche wanting 7.9%apr and £1320/mth is making it a more marginal calculation than I thought. Residual on a £96K car is £42K according to Porsche. The depreciation is nearly more than the M3 cost! Porsche tend to keep the residuals on PCPs pretty low to make sure there’s equity in the car at the end, which is great if you’re a serial buyer, but does make the monthly cost of your first one quite high. You’ll see that in the finance examples on their website and the final payment on our Boxster was nearly £10k lower than what we sold it for 6 month later. That plus protecting themselves against the unknown will be
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Post by johnc on Nov 22, 2019 10:27:48 GMT
I have just had my first phone call asking me to make a business case for replacing an M3 with a Porsche Taycan. Porsche wanting 7.9%apr and £1320/mth is making it a more marginal calculation than I thought. Residual on a £96K car is £42K according to Porsche. The depreciation is nearly more than the M3 cost! Porsche tend to keep the residuals on PCPs pretty low to make sure there’s equity in the car at the end, which is great if you’re a serial buyer, but does make the monthly cost of your first one quite high. You’ll see that in the finance examples on their website and the final payment on our Boxster was nearly £10k lower than what we sold it for 6 month later. That plus protecting themselves against the unknown will be The PCP figures are after he makes a £10K deposit!
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Post by Martin on Nov 22, 2019 10:45:34 GMT
Porsche tend to keep the residuals on PCPs pretty low to make sure there’s equity in the car at the end, which is great if you’re a serial buyer, but does make the monthly cost of your first one quite high. You’ll see that in the finance examples on their website and the final payment on our Boxster was nearly £10k lower than what we sold it for 6 month later. That plus protecting themselves against the unknown will be The PCP figures are after he makes a £10K deposit! Not surprised. It’s a much more expensive car than an M3 and the APR is shocking! With that budget I’d buy a 992 and spend the balance on the best 4 seat car I could afford.
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Post by johnc on Nov 22, 2019 11:23:06 GMT
The PCP figures are after he makes a £10K deposit! Not surprised. It’s a much more expensive car than an M3 and the APR is shocking! With that budget I’d buy a 992 and spend the balance on the best 4 seat car I could afford. His wife has a Cayenne so the 4 seat situation is already catered for. I've just looked at Lombard and the overall cost over 4 years is more than £10K less. I see Lombard don't have the apr on their site anymore which is a shame but looking at the interest total it is c£21,500 with Porsche and £10,500 with Lombard but the deposit is nearly £16K with Lombard as opposed to £10K with Porsche.
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 22, 2019 12:03:29 GMT
With Porsche you have to chip them on rate. Luckily when I got the GT4 they new I was in the finance game so went out at 5.9% on a PCP which I was happy with and also delivered on a high balloon so the monthlies were very reasonable. Remember it was a used car so no manufacturer support.
With the Taycan they're making hay obviously but being Porsche they don't have the volume or even the need to do low rate finance like BMW/Merc etc.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 22, 2019 14:01:37 GMT
I'm sorry but in a world where all base rates are sub-1% and the banks struggle to give you 1% on your deposits, paying 7% APR interest on a car is outrageous. Particularly for models from the really big automotive groups like VAG who have their own captive finance arms which frequently raise money by issuing bonds in the capital markets, where they pay very low rates on those bonds.
A significant reason for picking the 4GC over an S5 Sportback, C43 AMG or XE-S was APR at 2.9% rather than over 5%. That and a 20% discount vs no better than 10% on any of the others.
They were all very nice cars and doubtless I'd have been happy with any of them, but I couldn't ignore that the BMW was significantly cheaper to buy over 4yrs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 15:24:05 GMT
At the end of the day, money talks and bullshit walks.
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Post by johnc on Nov 25, 2019 13:07:50 GMT
Looks like he is going to buy it (after the salesman persuaded him to get the £5K battery upgrade and a few other bits). He is going to get an interest free loan from the Energy Saving Trust and Porsche have dropped their rate by a massive 1% so he will take their finance for the balance. Let's put it this way, it will cost considerably more than my mortgage! Car should be available by August next year.
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Post by Tim on Nov 25, 2019 13:18:47 GMT
The price of being an early adopter.
It sounds as if the prices for electric cars have a similar trajectory to those of luxo-barges so waiting for a year old one would be a better bet.
Well done to the Porsche salesman for using range anxiety to prise an extra £5k out of the deal.
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Post by johnc on Nov 25, 2019 14:02:19 GMT
The price of being an early adopter. It sounds as if the prices for electric cars have a similar trajectory to those of luxo-barges so waiting for a year old one would be a better bet. Well done to the Porsche salesman for using range anxiety to prise an extra £5k out of the deal. Apparently 100 units have been allocated to his dealer and many dealers have already taken deposits for over half their allocation. As the salesman said to him it is going to be the must have car for any successful director - he's good, that salesman, making anyone looking at one feel as if they have to buy it to show that they are successful!
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Post by PetrolEd on Nov 25, 2019 14:51:13 GMT
Good for him, we need far more people with his attitude spending money keeping the SS Walt Disney afloat.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 26, 2019 10:45:15 GMT
As the salesman said to him it is going to be the must have car for any successful director - he's good, that salesman, making anyone looking at one feel as if they have to buy it to show that they are successful! Interesting angle - not everybody sees it that way. I was chatting last night with an old friend of mine, who is a private client lawyer whose clients are all wealthy landed gentry and aristocrats, and remarked that he was going to have to replace both of their long-owned and much-loved Audis - a 2010 Audi A6 Allroad 3.0TDi (the biturbo version) and a 2005 A3 Sportback 2.0T quattro, as neither is ULEZ compliant. He does lots of shooting and fishing, hence liking cars with 4x4 traction. When I then recounted my Velar experience, he pretty much said " oh yes they are very nice but I couldn't possibly drive a Range Rover because my clients would think I was making too much money. The Audi has been perfect because it's very nice but doesn't come across as overly swanky". So I asked him if he was going to buy a Superb 4x4 and he had the grace to laugh.
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Post by michael on Nov 26, 2019 10:51:11 GMT
Surely he can drive what he likes so long as he turns up to his clients in peasant-mobile?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 11:31:21 GMT
Perhaps convert a tractor and doff his cap when he meets clients.
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Post by johnc on Nov 26, 2019 13:59:51 GMT
I've had one client call me a wanker for having the M5, another couple who say they don't want to pay for my car but a much larger proportion who have commented favourably.
To be blunt if any of the small minded jealous ones can't see past the car then they are welcome to go elsewhere. I know an accountant who lives in a £1m house, has a 911 in the garage, his wife has a FF Range Rover and he has an immaculate MGC for the sunny summer days. He uses a Citroen Berlingo for work to avoid any jealousy. For me that would be a complete waste because I would never get to drive and enjoy the toys in the garage so it is what it is.
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Post by Martin on Nov 26, 2019 14:28:08 GMT
I got a proper hard time from the area union guy who I met for the first time last week as wage negs have been escalate to me due to a failure to agree (on a good deal!). He was late and made a big thing about the big BMW with the private plate in the carpark..... Probably a good thing it doesn’t have the badges on, most assume it’s a 5 which I’m happy with,
Generally it’s not a big issue though as it’s relatively low key, people got much more excited / interested when I had the X5 loan car and a competitor we were working with drives a Ghibli (diesel) which caused a huge fuss because it was a Maserati.
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Post by Tim on Nov 26, 2019 16:32:39 GMT
I know an accountant who lives in a £1m house, has a 911 in the garage, his wife has a FF Range Rover and he has an immaculate MGC for the sunny summer days. He uses a Citroen Berlingo for work to avoid any jealousy. For me that would be a complete waste because I would never get to drive and enjoy the toys in the garage so it is what it is. I'm surprised the Berlingo is a good choice as it sort of smacks of a lack of success. I never had any problems with visiting clients (mainly due to me having been an employee and thus underpaid!) but a couple of friends have commented on the number of cars over the years. I try to ignore it but one wound me up quite a bit until I pointed out that his wife's Prius - bought new - cost several thousand more than the value of mine put together.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 26, 2019 16:43:49 GMT
a competitor we were working with drives a Ghibli (diesel) which caused a huge fuss because it was a Maserati. People are odd.
Reminds me of the company car rules at the bank where my father worked. Being the country manager, he could pretty much have anything he wanted but with the sole caveat that it had to have at least four doors.
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Post by Martin on Nov 26, 2019 17:50:19 GMT
a competitor we were working with drives a Ghibli (diesel) which caused a huge fuss because it was a Maserati. People are odd.
Reminds me of the company car rules at the bank where my father worked. Being the country manager, he could pretty much have anything he wanted but with the sole caveat that it had to have at least four doors.
They are, in many ways! It’s interesting what value they put on cars, which is often at odds with fact. Fine if you want to impress the neighbours I guess, but I’m happy that it works the other way.
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Post by Stuntman on Nov 26, 2019 19:32:13 GMT
I've sometimes had the same sort of comments when I've been working as a contractor.
But once they realise what I don't spend money on (such as holidays, eating out, having a family...) it's an easier conversation all round. Everyone has their own priorities. And as you know on here, I tend to keep my cars for a pretty long period of time, rather than changing every year or two like some people might.
On the positive side it's then easy to strike up conversations with other petrolheads of both sexes in the office.
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Post by PG on Nov 29, 2019 14:27:46 GMT
Is your client a director of a company or self employed? As the biggest incentive to swap to a BEV is for company car drivers. With a BIK rate of 0% 20/21 and then 1% and 2% the following years, a £130k Taycan v a £130k ICE car (at 30% + rate) suddenly gives a rather large tax saving.
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Post by johnc on Dec 2, 2019 7:57:28 GMT
Is your client a director of a company or self employed? As the biggest incentive to swap to a BEV is for company car drivers. With a BIK rate of 0% 20/21 and then 1% and 2% the following years, a £130k Taycan v a £130k ICE car (at 30% + rate) suddenly gives a rather large tax saving. Company Director. It is still worth it for the self employed but they only get the percentage of the tax saving that applies to their business use of the car. I think the issue for many is that they may have comfortably purchased a £50K - £70K car previously and they have always wanted a Porsche - now, if they can get over the £100K cost, they can have one at less overall cost than their £50K car but they are still taking on say £90K of debt which is a step too far for many, for a car.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Dec 3, 2019 16:00:55 GMT
I've had one client call me a wanker for having the M5, another couple who say they don't want to pay for my car but a much larger proportion who have commented favourably. To be blunt if any of the small minded jealous ones can't see past the car then they are welcome to go elsewhere. I know an accountant who lives in a £1m house, has a 911 in the garage, his wife has a FF Range Rover and he has an immaculate MGC for the sunny summer days. He uses a Citroen Berlingo for work to avoid any jealousy. For me that would be a complete waste because I would never get to drive and enjoy the toys in the garage so it is what it is. So some people are happy to pay you to make the most of their finances, yet don't expect you to enjoy the benefits of your labours? Jealousy and double standards!
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Post by Roadsterstu on Dec 4, 2019 9:17:36 GMT
I've just watched Doug Demuro's review on YouTube. The Taycan (Tie carn, it seems, in Murca) is the first all electric car I have a genuine excitement for. Not sure exactly why, but it looks fabulous, even sounds rather cool in a scifi way and appears to be every bit a Porsche. Apart from missing an engine and still being badged "Turbo". But I might get over that one day. For me, it's definitely the first electric "poster car".
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Post by johnc on Dec 4, 2019 21:20:27 GMT
I've just watched Doug Demuro's review on YouTube. The Taycan (Tie carn, it seems, in Murca) is the first all electric car I have a genuine excitement for. Not sure exactly why, but it looks fabulous, even sounds rather cool in a scifi way and appears to be every bit a Porsche. Apart from missing an engine and still being badged "Turbo". But I might get over that one day. For me, it's definitely the first electric "poster car". The more I see it, the more it appeals to me too!
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Post by Martin on Dec 4, 2019 22:16:22 GMT
I've just watched Doug Demuro's review on YouTube. The Taycan (Tie carn, it seems, in Murca) is the first all electric car I have a genuine excitement for. Not sure exactly why, but it looks fabulous, even sounds rather cool in a scifi way and appears to be every bit a Porsche. Apart from missing an engine and still being badged "Turbo". But I might get over that one day. For me, it's definitely the first electric "poster car". The more I see it, the more it appeals to me too! +Another
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