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Post by Martin on Aug 15, 2019 11:04:15 GMT
Re the Alfa, I looked at one last year and couldn’t live with the interior, sounds like I’m in the minority but with the driving I do a nice environment is important.
Agree with the comments on the 718 engine, it’s a step too far for me the way it drives wouldn’t be sufficient compensation. However, don’t think that you have to drive quickly or on decent roads to benefit from the way it drives. Ignoring the engine which made me grin on startup and burbling up the road, it only took about half a mile for the Boxster to put a bigger smile on my face. It felt great at the first roundabout, nothing to do with how quickly it could go around it, the feel through the steering wheel and it feeling like it pivoted around it’s centre
Miss that car....
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Post by Martin on Aug 15, 2019 11:08:05 GMT
Decent voice control is the answer, I use it a lot in mine, much quicker/easier/safer to get to information or change settings. I use the voice control about as often as I used the paddles, which is to say almost never! Do you have enhanced Bluetooth? That gives you a decent voice control system that uses the 4G connection in the car to make it work even better. It’s a lot better than it was in the 535d, so I only used that for voice dialling. I use the paddles a lot, mainly short shifting to temper the acceleration and enjoy the torque.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 15, 2019 11:22:12 GMT
Trust me its nasty. I drive a Focus and really don't give a hoot about fancy interiors but its cramped, like a GT86, and has zero charm. If I buy a Toyota I want a Toyota, not the steering wheel from a 118i and clearly the engine and gearbox from a 3 series. I can't stand fake ducts and the Toyotas full of them. I was close to having a deposit down on one when they were announced and even went to the Toyota in Guildford to have a chat but the more and more news that came out about it just took it off my radar. And if you think the Alfas got a bad interior, I think its actually rather pleasant, you'll hate the Toyota. The couple of Z4's I've sat in were at Goodwood and Geneva so were obviously plushed up but it was a nice place to sit. The Supra might be worth another look when its been given the full GRMN treatment but at the moment compared to something I just wouldn't. Interesting. I may look at one and come to the same conclusion, but overall the whole "if I buy a Toyota, I want a Toyota" thing passes over my head at 30,000ft. By that token, pretty much all VAG products are a complete no-no. And it's interesting that it doesn't apply uniformly...as in "If I buy an Alfa, I want an Alfa engine, not a lightly disguised engine from a Ferrari California"...
Plus I can't remember wanting any Toyota before, so it is quite possibly because overall this looks remarkably like an updated version of the old Z4M coupe, a car whose design I love, that I find it appealing.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 15, 2019 11:32:36 GMT
I use the voice control about as often as I used the paddles, which is to say almost never! Do you have enhanced Bluetooth? That gives you a decent voice control system that uses the 4G connection in the car to make it work even better. It’s a lot better than it was in the 535d, so I only used that for voice dialling. I use the paddles a lot, mainly short shifting to temper the acceleration and enjoy the torque. Not to my knowledge.
There's nothing wrong with the voice control - I use it sometimes for addresses and points of interest in the navigation and it works reasonably well - it's not always great with words that aren't pronounced the way they are spelt, such as Cadogan - you need to say Ka-doh-gan rather then Kerduggun.
But I've never developed the habit of using voice control for activating the phone or swapping radio channels, etc. I suspect that's a function of not driving very much any more, but equally I'm not even remotely tempted by an Alexa.
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 15, 2019 14:01:11 GMT
Trust me its nasty. I drive a Focus and really don't give a hoot about fancy interiors but its cramped, like a GT86, and has zero charm. If I buy a Toyota I want a Toyota, not the steering wheel from a 118i and clearly the engine and gearbox from a 3 series. I can't stand fake ducts and the Toyotas full of them. I was close to having a deposit down on one when they were announced and even went to the Toyota in Guildford to have a chat but the more and more news that came out about it just took it off my radar. And if you think the Alfas got a bad interior, I think its actually rather pleasant, you'll hate the Toyota. The couple of Z4's I've sat in were at Goodwood and Geneva so were obviously plushed up but it was a nice place to sit. The Supra might be worth another look when its been given the full GRMN treatment but at the moment compared to something I just wouldn't. Interesting. I may look at one and come to the same conclusion, but overall the whole "if I buy a Toyota, I want a Toyota" thing passes over my head at 30,000ft. By that token, pretty much all VAG products are a complete no-no. And it's interesting that it doesn't apply uniformly...as in "If I buy an Alfa, I want an Alfa engine, not a lightly disguised engine from a Ferrari California"...
Plus I can't remember wanting any Toyota before, so it is quite possibly because overall this looks remarkably like an updated version of the old Z4M coupe, a car whose design I love, that I find it appealing.
Sorry should have said Supra rather then Toyota which would have made sense. Supra carry's more cachet then Z4 IMO therefore I want a Supra not a Z4 in a dress. As much as I wouldn't be happy if the next 911 was in a "joint venture" with Merc and it was 90% Merc SL. I wouldn't touch it. VAG stuff, who cares as there mostly white goods. They are also lifted by being in the VAG group rather then held back. Yes the VW key on a Bentley is a bit shitty but that's about it. I wouldn't have bought a DB7 back in the day as it had that god awful Fiesta key. Goes to show we aren't all the same and many people might think the Supra benefits from the BMW bits, I just think its bloody sad that the worlds second largest car manufacturer can't justify the case for a proper halo model to promote the rest of the Toyota brand.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 15, 2019 14:29:02 GMT
Well I agree with your last sentiment in both respects - it is sad and we are indeed all different. I am, however, just not someone who gets misty-eyed over any of the previous Supras, therefore I just can't get exercised about the genesis of this one. As such I am free to examine this one without any preconceptions. If it's objectively crap, then there's no getting away from that. But here the problem seems to be a subjective one.
I am not sure your chosen comparison is the best one . A 911 and a Merc SL have always been very different cars, with the 911 being an especially distinctive package so a 911 which was 90% SL just couldn't be a 911. Whereas coupe versions of the Z3M and Z4M have always been pretty hairy-chested 2-seat machines, just like previous generations of the Supra, so to me the tie-up doesn't seem illogical.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 15, 2019 14:30:43 GMT
The bigger problem the Supra probably has is that for £55k, there's an awful lot of other lightly-used machinery that I might be tempted by instead.
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Post by Tim on Aug 15, 2019 15:21:03 GMT
The bigger problem the Supra probably has is that for £55k, there's an awful lot of other lightly-used machinery that I might be tempted by instead. This! Re the VAG issue can someone, once and for all, explain to me why the Audi TT (among many others in the group) has never been criticised for being on a shared platform with the Golf - not noted as an exciting drive - whereas back in the day the Jag X Type was absolutely nailed by all the usual outlets for being based on the Mondeo platform, which those same outlets agreed was a wonderful handler for a mere family car? I don't think the Jag was particularly festooned with cheapo obviously Ford bits. I'm not saying things like the TT are crap, just that I assume they underacheived as a more focused driver's car. I know the answer already - ze Chermans produce wonderfully engineered and superior products that must be accepted as such and never criticised
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 15, 2019 15:27:39 GMT
The bigger problem the Supra probably has is that for £55k, there's an awful lot of other lightly-used machinery that I might be tempted by instead. This! Re the VAG issue can someone, once and for all, explain to me why the Audi TT (among many others in the group) has never been criticised for being on a shared platform with the Golf - not noted as an exciting drive - whereas back in the day the Jag X Type was absolutely nailed by all the usual outlets for being based on the Mondeo platform, which those same outlets agreed was a wonderful handler for a mere family car? I don't think the Jag was particularly festooned with cheapo obviously Ford bits. I'm not saying things like the TT are crap, just that I assume they underacheived as a more focused driver's car. I know the answer already - ze Chermans produce wonderfully engineered and superior products that must be accepted as such and never criticised The first TT was regularly nailed for being on a Golf chassis and an unexciting drive. On nearly every review if I remember right. I agree with you about the Jag X-Type though. if it had come out first Jaguar would have been universally praised for delivering a great FWD chassis. The subsequent Mondeo would have been hailed as a success for using that great Jaguar chassis. Sadly, timing is everything.
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 15, 2019 15:44:25 GMT
Again its perception, think Jag, you hopefully think E-Type, D-Type, F-Type, Arthur Daley, ok not Arthur Daley but no matter how good the Mondeo was, its a bit downmarket for a Jag.
The TT was given a kicking at the time but it was a car which was about style more then anything else and didn't have a legacy. If you remember it even survived the killer handling issue where they had to mould on that dodgy rear wing to stop them flying off the road.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 15, 2019 17:52:10 GMT
I think the X-Type has aged reasonably well.
Arranged last weekend to go for a countryside walk with various friends, one set of which turned up in an 04-plate X-Type 2.5 AWD estate. It was in a light metallic grey with a black leather interior with grey woodwork, in some sort of upmarket sport spec with big alloys and de-chroming, and generally still looked entirely presentable and smart for a 15yr old babywagon.
I don’t suppose they’ll keep it much longer though, as daughter no.3 has just arrived. My sister, who used to drive an X-Type estate but these days has two children and a rather bigger Passat GTE estate, was the first to say “oh my God, how are you all fitting in?”.
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Post by Alex on Aug 15, 2019 19:56:03 GMT
The bigger problem the Supra probably has is that for £55k, there's an awful lot of other lightly-used machinery that I might be tempted by instead. It is a pretty bold price point, especially as it doesn't even get the most powerful version of its engine (am I right that the Z4 can be had with 50hp more?). At that price you start looking at lightly used Cayman, Alpine A110 and Lotus Evora (I was sat behind one in traffic earlier and it still looks good even for a 10year old model). The BMW interior bits wouldn't bother me too much, having sat in a Corolla I think owners of the Supra should be quite pleased that Toyota didn't use their own parts!
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Post by Andy C on Aug 16, 2019 19:38:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 9:02:20 GMT
Love the way everyone slags off VAG whilst conveniently forgetting that Porsche is under that very same umbrella along with stuff like Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti...
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Post by Martin on Aug 17, 2019 9:16:27 GMT
Love the way everyone slags off VAG whilst conveniently forgetting that Porsche is under that very same umbrella along with stuff like Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti... And some terrible ‘mainstream’ models like the RS6 and then there’s the Golf R, RSQ3.....
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Post by Sav on Aug 17, 2019 9:22:12 GMT
Those wheels on the Fiesta look terrific. I wonder if you can buy a set for the standard ST, or are Ford limiting supply of those rims? That's the thing, I think there is a profitable business in selling Ford Performance bits, like the M Performance upgrades. I saw a yellow M2 Competition at Brands Hatch last Sunday. One would just expect it to be DCT, no, it was a proper manual. How refreshing. I don't like the M2C wheels, far too fussy, far too intricate to clean. That M2 had these wheels, which looked much better: www.marshall.co.uk/bmw/aftersales-offers/bmw-m-performance-wheels/As for the Giulia, that has a lot of want. Someone came to visit my neighbour a few weeks ago in a Giulia Quadrifoglio in dark blue. He started it up, yikes, that made me a tad jealous. On the continent you can have it with a manual, if only in the UK….
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 9:55:21 GMT
Love the way everyone slags off VAG whilst conveniently forgetting that Porsche is under that very same umbrella along with stuff like Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti... And some terrible ‘mainstream’ models like the RS6 and then there’s the Golf R, RSQ3..... Don't forget the R8 with its humdrum, white goods V10 engine.
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Post by Martin on Aug 17, 2019 10:00:28 GMT
That’s enough to get me on Autotrader looking at the first generation V10s.....
edit: £50k for a really nice one, blimey.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 10:12:04 GMT
There's a carwow vid out of a gen 1 V8 vs a TT-S roadster and the TT beats it in a drag race (manual vs DSG, I should add)
ETA
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 18, 2019 13:32:27 GMT
That’s not really the point though! In the desirability and fun stakes, original R8 V8 manual vs a TT-S is a no-brainer and not in the latter’s favour!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 18:17:44 GMT
Especially a ragtop one.
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Post by Eff One on Aug 20, 2019 22:12:03 GMT
A Cayman of some flavour has been top of the list for years, but it's out of budget and I need rear seats.
In the real world:
1. Fiesta ST, although I'm disappointed at the demise of the old Spirit blue. But like my old one, it would probably be virtually everything I want in a car.
2. I've always loved the idea of a GT86 or BRZ, though I'd have to be sure that the engine wouldn't grow annoying with time. They're expensive these days, too.
3. Civic Type R. If the reviews are to be believed, it offers a remarkable mix of practicality, usability and supercar-baiting pace, and a lot of precision engineering for the money. In the right colour I could even live with the looks.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 21, 2019 7:15:50 GMT
Fiesta ST, although I'm disappointed at the demise of the old Spirit blue. But like my old one, it would probably be virtually everything I want in a car. I'm very disappointed in the range of colours offered on the "new" Fiesta.... same applies to a lot of cars at the moment, though. A glut of blues and greys with red and white also usually available. When you think of advanced manufacturing techniques that allow colours to be mixed and matched for car to car as they pass through the paint "booths" in the factory, instead if the old-school days when the line ran with cars of the same colour for a few hours before a colour change was made, its particularly disappointing. Another example is the "new" Scenic, which is offered in 2-tone finishes for most colours, except the newish "Amethyst" which has to be all-over (no option of black or grey or white roof).
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 21, 2019 7:57:41 GMT
Fiesta ST, although I'm disappointed at the demise of the old Spirit blue. But like my old one, it would probably be virtually everything I want in a car. I'm very disappointed in the range of colours offered on the "new" Fiesta.... same applies to a lot of cars at the moment, though. A glut of blues and greys with red and white also usually available. When you think of advanced manufacturing techniques that allow colours to be mixed and matched for car to car as they pass through the paint "booths" in the factory, instead if the old-school days when the line ran with cars of the same colour for a few hours before a colour change was made, its particularly disappointing. Another example is the "new" Scenic, which is offered in 2-tone finishes for most colours, except the newish "Amethyst" which has to be all-over (no option of black or grey or white roof). Manufacturers generally make what people buy. Given the choice, most people are not very adventurous with colour choices and on the back of dire warnings about residuals and certain colours being difficult to re-sell, default to the monochromes. Vehicles that are running through the lines that are not being built to order but to go to leasing companies and/or dealer stock will also be built in the most easy to sell colours. The exceptions are often when new models come out and they may produce an impact colour so that the car gets noticed on the road. Personally I like bright colours (my dad had a signal yellow Ford Granada 3000S in the 70s, aka The Bananamobile), especially in small warm/hot hatches - not in SUVs though.
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Post by Tim on Aug 21, 2019 15:06:56 GMT
2. I've always loved the idea of a GT86 or BRZ, though I'd have to be sure that the engine wouldn't grow annoying with time. They're expensive these days, too. According to the price lists at the back of Autocar Nissan are still selling the boggo 370Z and its only £29k. For that you get 6 cylinders of goodness and an extra 127BHP over the puny BRZ/GT86 It'd be useless if you needed more than 2 seats though.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 22, 2019 7:35:29 GMT
2. I've always loved the idea of a GT86 or BRZ, though I'd have to be sure that the engine wouldn't grow annoying with time. They're expensive these days, too. According to the price lists at the back of Autocar Nissan are still selling the boggo 370Z and its only £29k. For that you get 6 cylinders of goodness and an extra 127BHP over the puny BRZ/GT86 It'd be useless if you needed more than 2 seats though. That would be attractive to someone who completely misses the point of the GT86.
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Post by Martin on Aug 22, 2019 8:00:55 GMT
2. I've always loved the idea of a GT86 or BRZ, though I'd have to be sure that the engine wouldn't grow annoying with time. They're expensive these days, too. According to the price lists at the back of Autocar Nissan are still selling the boggo 370Z and its only £29k. For that you get 6 cylinders of goodness and an extra 127BHP over the puny BRZ/GT86 It'd be useless if you needed more than 2 seats though. Sub £25k after discount
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Post by Tim on Aug 22, 2019 8:57:11 GMT
According to the price lists at the back of Autocar Nissan are still selling the boggo 370Z and its only £29k. For that you get 6 cylinders of goodness and an extra 127BHP over the puny BRZ/GT86 It'd be useless if you needed more than 2 seats though. That would be attractive to someone who completely misses the point of the GT86. That'd be me then. What's the difference between them apart from a lot more extra shove for the same money?
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Post by PetrolEd on Aug 22, 2019 9:16:39 GMT
Think MX5 with a roof rather then diet Mustang.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 22, 2019 9:25:56 GMT
That would be attractive to someone who completely misses the point of the GT86. That'd be me then. What's the difference between them apart from a lot more extra shove for the same money? Drive them both down a twisty road and you wouldn't need to ask that question.
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