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The EU
May 12, 2017 9:45:50 GMT
Post by Big Blue on May 12, 2017 9:45:50 GMT
Let's face it we can all be comfortable about immigration from our middle class enclaves. That nice European girl who serves us our coffee in Costa, the guys that hand wash our cars, and indeed all the nice people we come across in the Health Service - all good. In fact a good friend of mine is married to a Polish lady who came across here with her son to work in the Goring in London. When I hear people saying they can't understand why anyone would be mad enough to vote for Brexit I think of some conversations I've had in the last few months - the mate who is losing his small tiling business as every tender he puts in is undercut hugely by Eastern European tradesmen - he's going to lose his house, and the strain is causing his marriage to fail. A £650 million power plant was announced for Teesside - good news, lots of jobs for out work Teessiders - except the contract has been awarded to a Spanish company who are looking to import everything, even the site welding contract has been given to an agency who find it easier to import Romanians, pay them less and put them up 4 to a house, rather than interview local guys. As one welder said to me; "I've seen my hourly rate almost halved and the three bedroom house I was going to rent for my family has been split up into separate rooms as the landlord can make more money that way". Of course let's not forget that it's all very well saying that we want to leave the EU and control immigration but we can already control non-EU immigration and we do that very badly so I can't see what hope we have. Patronising or otherwise, the job scenarios above form the part of Brexit that is played on in various constituencies. It's the main reason why it was Labour seats that got eroded in the last General, as UKIP was taking assumed-to-be-left-wing Labour votes, not the votes of foaming right wing racists that would vote Conservative come thick or even thicker. The final paragraph was kind of the point I made earlier: we've always had immigration and always will until the "haves" stop needing the "have-nots" to do the things the "haves" either won't do or can afford someone else to do for them. In effect imported labour is a modern form of the slave trade because the local labour would not be paid the low levels and live in the conditions on offer to those that come over to fill that void.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 9:51:37 GMT
Post by PetrolEd on May 12, 2017 9:51:37 GMT
Well said Bob. It's all too easy for people to assume you must be fucking useless at your job to lose out to an immigrant but lets be honest, a number don't pay Tax/NI, live 10 to a house and think £50 a day is a decent take home. Try living on that as someone with fixed costs like a mortgage, family costs etc. and the numbers don't stack up.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 9:57:40 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 9:57:40 GMT
I thought of this thread when we ended up (quite accidentally) watching a programme on C4 last night called How to get a Council House (or somesuch). Those seeking council help were a mixed bunch, from those where it was perfectly possible to take a sympathetic view, to those who told porkies and were (not at all concealed) racists. Those who took the view that all you have to do it turn up in the country and you'll find the local authority will bend over backwards for you were quickly disabused of the notion. I was quite surprised about how hard line the council was about not accommodating all, but I suppose when their are limited resources you have to deal with the most needy and deserving.
Not sure I'll be watching any more of it.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 11:01:53 GMT
Post by scouse on May 12, 2017 11:01:53 GMT
I have been surprised over the years at the number of Eastern European tenants of ours that have been given council houses compared to 'native' (for want of a better word) tenants.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 11:20:20 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 11:20:20 GMT
One of the stats quoted was that (IITC) over 91% of short-term council accommodation was provided for people born in the UK. The costs are genuinely scary. If only we had a decent stock of council houses...!
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The EU
May 12, 2017 14:19:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 14:19:52 GMT
Sadly Thatcher denied the councils the right to maintain housing stock at reasonable levels long ago, while encouraging the sale of council properties. What other result could there have been?
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The EU
May 12, 2017 14:56:54 GMT
Post by Tim on May 12, 2017 14:56:54 GMT
Sadly Thatcher denied the councils the right to maintain housing stock at reasonable levels long ago, while encouraging the sale of council properties. What other result could there have been? Subsequent Governments could've overturned the policy but I don't think any of them did?
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The EU
May 12, 2017 15:27:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by Big Blue on May 12, 2017 15:27:23 GMT
Sadly Thatcher denied the councils the right to maintain housing stock at reasonable levels long ago, while encouraging the sale of council properties. What other result could there have been? Bloody hell, the tail end of that Conservative administration under John Major ceased to be in power over 20 years ago. As Tim says if there is a need for a change government can instigate it.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 16:10:35 GMT
Post by grampa on May 12, 2017 16:10:35 GMT
Sadly Thatcher denied the councils the right to maintain housing stock at reasonable levels long ago, while encouraging the sale of council properties. What other result could there have been? If they hadn't been sold, would they have been available otherwise? - My in-laws bought their council house in the 80's - I wasn't privvy to their finances so I can't say for sure, but I suspect if they hadn't been able to buy it, they would still be living there as tenants so it wouldn't have been available to any other council tenant anyway (they moved on about 10 years later, and selling it allowed a young couple to get on the property ladder). My in laws are now mortgage free in a different house, so buying their council house ultimately gave them more spending power which goes back into the economy (or am I being too simplistic?)
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The EU
May 12, 2017 17:07:00 GMT
Post by johnc on May 12, 2017 17:07:00 GMT
Sadly Thatcher denied the councils the right to maintain housing stock at reasonable levels long ago, while encouraging the sale of council properties. What other result could there have been? If they hadn't been sold, would they have been available otherwise? - My in-laws bought their council house in the 80's - I wasn't privvy to their finances so I can't say for sure, but I suspect if they hadn't been able to buy it, they would still be living there as tenants so it wouldn't have been available to any other council tenant anyway (they moved on about 10 years later, and selling it allowed a young couple to get on the property ladder). My in laws are now mortgage free in a different house, so buying their council house ultimately gave them more spending power which goes back into the economy (or am I being too simplistic?) I think you're dead right. I sometimes feel that way about tradesmen who do jobs for cash - ultimately that money will get spent at the supermarket, pub, carry out and many other salubrious establishments helping to maintain and boost the economy. On the other hand the money that the multinationals don't pay gets sucked out of our system and then gets spent in other parts of the world. That to my mind is a much bigger loss to the treasury than the cash in hand money which just misses out the treasury on one pass through the system. That is of course just an observation and in no way echoes my professional views.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 18:07:32 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 18:07:32 GMT
A lot have been sold and not replaced, those sold on by the original purchasers did not go back into the council house pool. This has been going on for a lot of years.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 18:16:35 GMT
Post by Alex on May 12, 2017 18:16:35 GMT
Sadly Thatcher denied the councils the right to maintain housing stock at reasonable levels long ago, while encouraging the sale of council properties. What other result could there have been? If they hadn't been sold, would they have been available otherwise? - My in-laws bought their council house in the 80's - I wasn't privvy to their finances so I can't say for sure, but I suspect if they hadn't been able to buy it, they would still be living there as tenants so it wouldn't have been available to any other council tenant anyway (they moved on about 10 years later, and selling it allowed a young couple to get on the property ladder). My in laws are now mortgage free in a different house, so buying their council house ultimately gave them more spending power which goes back into the economy (or am I being too simplistic?) That example shows that Thatcher was right to give council tenants the right to buy their house. In many ways it was very forward thinking in that the net result is now a large amount of baby-boomers retiring without a mortgage or rent to worry about. It was, however, incredibly short sighted of them not to replace the property lost from the system. But I'll echo BB's point that it's pointless laying the blame at a decision made 30+ years ago. If the housing crisis we have today is truly the effect of immigration, as much of the media says it is, surely the Labour led open-door immigration policy needs more scrutiny. If it was so obvious that we needed mass building of council houses, why didn't they do it? They spent fuck loads of cash on their poorly thought out and expensive to administer tax credit system, perhaps putting that towards cheap housing would have been a better plan.
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The EU
May 12, 2017 18:36:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 18:36:46 GMT
Agree entirely re the labour partly, the dynamic duo have a lot to answer for and pay for with the current idiot leading labour voters up the garden path and into la la land. Council housing could have made use of brown field site in cities where there is the potential of a dire shortage of people who do so the people who pay others to will have to do for themselves.
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The EU
May 13, 2017 14:14:58 GMT
Post by scouse on May 13, 2017 14:14:58 GMT
Our local council is currently buying property back into housing stock - they have a preference for ex-LA stock (we've sold them several - both our own and clients) all at decent prices. You can complain about them not replacing the stock at the time, but even if they had of done, the lack of planning over net immigration exceeding 300k for over ten years would have still left a housing shortfall. Especially as private house building has been over 100k houses short per year for as long as I've been in the industry.
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The EU
Jun 5, 2017 12:55:35 GMT
Post by Tim on Jun 5, 2017 12:55:35 GMT
Just seen this on the BBC news website:- "Insurance giant RSA says it will open a new office in Luxembourg in response to Brexit, following similar moves by AIG, FM Global and Hiscox.
According to the Telegraph, the new office will house up to 10 people and be the headquarters for RSA's existing EU offices in Belgium, France, Germany, Spain and the Netherlands.
A spokeswoman said RSA chose Luxembourg because of its experienced regulator, strategic location and multi-national expertise.
"While Brexit is not a major issue for RSA, the move allows the sensible reconfiguration of the branch network in light of the UK’s exit from the EU," she said. "
So, it's sort of in the name of Brexit and, of course, has nothing to do with Luxembourg being a notoriously low-tax kind of place where you might want to headquarter all your European offshoots in the manner of Vodafone. Oh no, that's not it at all. Brexit is going to give them all a fantastic excuse for doing that
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