|
Post by racingteatray on May 3, 2019 15:14:24 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 17:01:40 GMT
We did not get involved in this round, we will be keeping the current limp damp and pathetic councilors for a while yet. They really are the dogs pits.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on May 3, 2019 17:20:03 GMT
I went to vote on my way home from work yesterday. Pick 2 from two conservative and 2 labour candidates. I don't recall receiving any pre-election propaganda through the letterbox this time round in the preceding couple of months.
A little odd
|
|
|
Post by LandieMark on May 3, 2019 18:20:21 GMT
Didn't vote yesterday. I usually do, but was busy and have no idea who our prospective candidates are.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 3, 2019 23:57:07 GMT
There were no elections in London (not that this stopped BoJo claiming he had voted...) so here we are merely spectating.
But I am deeply satisfied by the thrashing doled out to the Tories.
|
|
|
Post by Roadrunner on May 4, 2019 7:34:55 GMT
Our local Conservative councillor get back in with an increased majority, but that is because she is damn good at her job.
Like Racing, I am quietly enjoying the 'plague upon both of your houses ' message which has been sent to both main parties.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 9:23:41 GMT
It is a rather good message to send them and aboput bloody time. They will not listen though.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 4, 2019 14:29:52 GMT
It is a rather good message to send them and aboput bloody time. They will not listen though. No, apparently not. Although you ought to be pleased because both May and Corbyn managed to find ways to interpret the result as meaning that voters wanted Brexit more than ever. Apparently votes for the LibDems and Greens are just "protest votes"... Mmm, but it would be surely an odd way to protest against the non-occurrence of Brexit by voting for two parties who expressly want to cancel Brexit... As ever, they both operate on a "the truth is what I say it is, never mind reality" basis.
|
|
|
Post by michael on May 4, 2019 15:19:46 GMT
The turn out was low. The conservatives lost seats in leave areas and remain areas because of Brexit - it wasn’t a clear indication of a National mood for policy direction for either remain or leave.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 16:30:26 GMT
The turn out was low. The conservatives lost seats in leave areas and remain areas because of Brexit - it wasn’t a clear indication of a National mood for policy direction for either remain or leave. My interpretation too. As much a public comment on the complete failure of both major parties to behave with any professional values at all. Whether this will impact on any general election is yet to be seen but I am back to the point of not being able to believe a single thing ANY of them say.
Bring back Lord Such, he could not do any worse, even as a decaying corpse in the corner of the house.
Bleep........................
|
|
|
Post by ChrisM on May 4, 2019 17:55:17 GMT
Bring back Lord Such, he could not do any worse, even as a decaying corpse in the corner of the house.
Bleep........................ It's always a disappointment to turn up to vote and find no candidate from The Monster Raving Loony Party on the ballot paper. I recall hearing an interview by Lord Such many years back when he promised to field a candidate in my constituency but needless to say, at election time there wasn't one
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 22:40:37 GMT
Almost makes me want to stand myself, problem is I would have to sit, much too lazy to stand tbh.
|
|
|
Post by alf on May 20, 2019 8:49:52 GMT
This was the first time I have not voted in a long time. There is no one I can support currently, to the extent I need to have a look at the Change Party and Lib Dem's manifestos to take a view on whether I stay out (I'm never voting for the comrade terrorist appeaser who wants to take us back to East Germany). I suspect the Lib Dems are still a bunch of nice seeming people but with policies that are in some ways more left wing and anti-business than Labour's, which has been the case during most of their long decline now, and Change UK seems to be going nowhere. I'm not voting for Boris as I hold his change of heart responsible for Brexit... Plus the Tories are not the pro-business, small government/personal responsibility loving party they were, there are just too few politicians on all sides who have lived lives in the real world - either tough poor ones, or private sector business oriented ones, all of which are needed for a balanced view.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 20, 2019 14:24:51 GMT
I do think Change UK have regrettably shaped up to be rather useless so far.
To use a doubtless un-PC term, it looks very much like a case of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians...
|
|
|
Post by Stuntman on May 20, 2019 20:58:24 GMT
Sadly, I agree too. There is such an opportunity in the centre ground (in my opinion, obvs), just waiting to be seized properly by someone with a clear coherent message.
|
|
|
Post by michael on May 20, 2019 21:35:19 GMT
Change UK have done pretty much everything wrong. They have one uniting policy and that is to reverse the result of the referendum and beyond that they have nothing. The fact that they appeal more to themselves than the general public seem to be lost on them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 21:36:11 GMT
Rbbish all of them. I have tried asking the local council about high temp burning of waste to produce energy and reduce landfill. Their answer? Talk to the contractors who deal with waste. I say, "How on earth can contractors decide policy"?, they ignore me. Fuckers.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2019 10:29:24 GMT
Change UK have done pretty much everything wrong. They have one uniting policy and that is to reverse the result of the referendum and beyond that they have nothing. The fact that they appeal more to themselves than the general public seem to be lost on them. In that they are the mirror image of Farage and the Brexit Party, who also only have one stated policy and no manifesto.
But that only seems to work if you are basically a one-man band with a clear leader who is a gobby rabble-rouser like Farage.
The Tiggers (or ChUKkers?) lack someone prepared to do that. It ought to be Soubry, whose Thatcher impression is getting better, but somehow it fails.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on May 21, 2019 10:47:52 GMT
Anna Soubry was getting interviewed on R4 while I was going home last night. I think she's better at doing Thatcher than Maggie herself was!
I bet the Tiggers cringed when she came across.
|
|
|
Post by michael on May 21, 2019 13:26:50 GMT
Change UK have done pretty much everything wrong. They have one uniting policy and that is to reverse the result of the referendum and beyond that they have nothing. The fact that they appeal more to themselves than the general public seem to be lost on them. In that they are the mirror image of Farage and the Brexit Party, who also only have one stated policy and no manifesto.
But that only seems to work if you are basically a one-man band with a clear leader who is a gobby rabble-rouser like Farage.
The Tiggers (or ChUKkers?) lack someone prepared to do that. It ought to be Soubry, whose Thatcher impression is getting better, but somehow it fails.
Change UK and the Brexit party are similar in that they have one policy but beyond that they're completely different. Like it or not the Brexit Party branding and social media content is excellent and targetted. They tap in to what their voters want because they understand their audience. Their offer is clear - unlike Change UK who have no offer. They all talk about a second referendum without quite admitting they want to overturn the result of the first. Their branding is a joke to the point they look ridiculous. They look dishonest in that they refuse to call a by-election in their respective patches despite making the argument that we need a second vote because people didn't know what they were voting for. You might not agree they should seek election but it's mud that can be slung and it's certainly sticking.
I don't think they'll last. They're an incoherent group of people, as is the Brexit Party, but unlike them they have a badly packaged message and little support outside the metro areas and an even smaller understanding as to why people voted to leave and as a consequence no credible strategy to win them to remain.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2019 13:41:13 GMT
In that they are the mirror image of Farage and the Brexit Party, who also only have one stated policy and no manifesto.
But that only seems to work if you are basically a one-man band with a clear leader who is a gobby rabble-rouser like Farage.
The Tiggers (or ChUKkers?) lack someone prepared to do that. It ought to be Soubry, whose Thatcher impression is getting better, but somehow it fails.
Change UK and the Brexit party are similar in that they have one policy but beyond that they're completely different. Like it or not the Brexit Party branding and social media content is excellent and targetted. They tap in to what their voters want because they understand their audience. Their offer is clear - unlike Change UK who have no offer. They all talk about a second referendum without quite admitting they want to overturn the result of the first. Their branding is a joke to the point they look ridiculous. They look dishonest in that they refuse to call a by-election in their respective patches despite making the argument that we need a second vote because people didn't know what they were voting for. You might not agree they should seek election but it's mud that can be slung and it's certainly sticking.
I don't think they'll last. They're an incoherent group of people, as is the Brexit Party, but unlike them they have a badly packaged message and little support outside the metro areas and an even smaller understanding as to why people voted to leave and as a consequence no credible strategy to win them to remain.
I agree with most of that. But I do feel compelled to point out that (a) "little support outside the metro areas" needs setting in the context of where the UK population lives - I'm not sure what you mean by "metro area" but in percentage terms it's around an 85/15 population split urban/rural with the major cities and conurbations accounting for a majority of the 85) and (b) the failure to understand the other side's point of view is equally prevalent on both sides of the argument.
They should have just joined the LibDems. It would have been far more effective.
|
|
|
Post by michael on May 21, 2019 13:45:04 GMT
Change UK and the Brexit party are similar in that they have one policy but beyond that they're completely different. Like it or not the Brexit Party branding and social media content is excellent and targetted. They tap in to what their voters want because they understand their audience. Their offer is clear - unlike Change UK who have no offer. They all talk about a second referendum without quite admitting they want to overturn the result of the first. Their branding is a joke to the point they look ridiculous. They look dishonest in that they refuse to call a by-election in their respective patches despite making the argument that we need a second vote because people didn't know what they were voting for. You might not agree they should seek election but it's mud that can be slung and it's certainly sticking.
I don't think they'll last. They're an incoherent group of people, as is the Brexit Party, but unlike them they have a badly packaged message and little support outside the metro areas (and not that much support in them) areas and an even smaller understanding as to why people voted to leave and as a consequence no credible strategy to win them to remain.
I agree with most of that. But I do feel compelled to point out that (a) "little support outside the metro areas" needs setting in the context that considerably over half the UK population lives in metro areas and (b) the failure to understand the other side's point of view is equally prevalent on both sides of the argument.
They should have just joined the LibDems. It would have been far more effective.
Better? I don't think it's incumbent on leave voters to understand why remain lost. It's the leave voters that need to be won over.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2019 13:52:39 GMT
Not really. At what point did a narrow 52/48 result involving only just over 2/3rds of the electorate (and only just over half the population) turn into this asserted landslide victory for Brexit? See Mr Farage on the topic: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681 I'm not talking about why Remain lost. I'm talking about why Remain.
|
|
|
Post by michael on May 21, 2019 14:12:40 GMT
Nobody mentioned a landslide but remain lost in a fair an free election. The argument stopped being why you should vote to remain at that point so the same old arguments no longer apply. And even if they did, those arguments lost so the remain campaigners needs to up their game and win over those who voted leave last time.
The remain campaign has catastrophically failed to evolve their strategy when it needed to most. All they have done is thrown tantrums and caused obstructions. This has not gone unnoticed with the electorate. Remain has a toxicity it is yet to realise. The Change UK party represent this failure to engage with a significant body of the electorate by trying to win them over with arguments that will convince them of remain. They have somewhat painted themselves into a corner as they don't dare say that they're trying to reverse the result and so cant' really make a strong positive case for being a member of the EU. Even if this wasn't enough to doom the second vote strategy they're now seen as trying to rig that with the, "remain on the ballet' against TM's deal. This strikes me as utter insanity as they clearly have no idea how badly that will play out with the general public or what other unintended consequences it may entail.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on May 21, 2019 14:31:01 GMT
Not really. At what point did a narrow 52/48 result involving only just over 2/3rds of the electorate (and only just over half the population) turn into this asserted landslide victory for Brexit? See Mr Farage on the topic: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681 I'm not talking about why Remain lost. I'm talking about why Remain. I'd forgotten about that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 15:28:34 GMT
A common theme with remainers is the 'It was only a narrow win for leave". So what? It was sufficient for a result and if it had gone the other way they would be saying so. When the referendum was held there were two choices and yet the Bleaders have added a third to suit them. Where was the talk about a deal on the bloomin' paperwork we voted on? It strikes me the whole deal thing was created to bring Brexit to a screaming halt and reverse the process, or tie us to the market with no voting rights. The pattern is there.
Still not heard a good reason for the proposed second 'confirmatory' referendum not leading to a third referendum etc. Or is it that the remainers just want what they want and not democracy at all?
|
|
|
Post by scouse on May 21, 2019 15:50:58 GMT
Yes it was 52/48. 1,269,501 people 71.5% turnout 9 out of 12 regions voted leave, only London, Scotland 7 Northern Ireland voted remain Of the 30 major cities in the UK 16 voted leave, 14 voted remain although remain actually polled more votes by over 900,000 Outside of the 30 major cities leave polled more votes by more than 2.185 million By approximate General Election constituency 406 Leave to 242 Remain or 62.65%
The result of the 1975 referendum was decided on a turn out of less than 65% The last General Election 'landslide' was Tony Blair's 1997 with a return of 418 seats to 241 or 63.42%
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2019 18:07:04 GMT
Are you suggesting that Leave would have accepted a 52/48 result for Remain and gone quietly?
That BBC article I've linked to quotes Nigel Farage as saying "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way."
All I'm pointing out is that when he realised he'd won by that self-same margin, it suddenly was deemed to be finished business.
The hypocrisy on display is quite startling.
|
|
|
Post by racingteatray on May 21, 2019 18:18:17 GMT
The remain campaign has catastrophically failed to evolve their strategy when it needed to most. All they have done is thrown tantrums and caused obstructions. This has not gone unnoticed with the electorate. Remain has a toxicity it is yet to realise. The Change UK party represent this failure to engage with a significant body of the electorate by trying to win them over with arguments that will convince them of remain. They have somewhat painted themselves into a corner as they don't dare say that they're trying to reverse the result and so cant' really make a strong positive case for being a member of the EU. Even if this wasn't enough to doom the second vote strategy they're now seen as trying to rig that with the, "remain on the ballet' against TM's deal. This strikes me as utter insanity as they clearly have no idea how badly that will play out with the general public or what other unintended consequences it may entail. You mean half the general public. There are plenty of Remainers and last time I checked we were part of the general public, although it hasn't felt much like we get treated as such of late. Distinct sense of being a second-class citizen compared to the noble nationalist Brexiteers.
And to be perfectly honest, I don't think there are any arguments that would work to convince most Brexiteers that I've met or heard on TV or the radio. It seems to be a topic that is simply not up for debate. The argument seems to go "we won, it must now happen no matter what". This is not because they are in any way ignorant or stupid. It's just that they have closed their minds to any discussion of the merits of the situation.
Pointing out that this seems a dangerous way to proceed ought not to result in someone being called undemocratic, or called a c*nt, or receiving death threats. But it does unfortunately.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 21:14:29 GMT
What you mean is, "They are not listening to me and I am smarter than they are".
Leave won the referendum and telling people the equivalent of you are smart and they are stupid for not realising that", is never going to be popular. What would you be saying if remain had won and others had problems accepting that?
No, I know you did not actually say that but as good as.
Any other close run elections/referendums we should revisit because the results were no in favour of x, y or z?
|
|