Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 15:50:38 GMT
Various EU reps have been quoted and published up the yazoo putting out scare mongering tales of woe when they really do not want to lose sales and trade with us. Look at the state of other EU members and a different story comes out. Italy are refusing to obey fiscal rules of the EU, large parts of France want out of the EU and the German dwarf is on her way out of the door too, with more than egg on her face. What will Germany do then?
The EU is a lot less than united but are STILL putting the frighteners on the Russians with talk of the Ukraine joining the EU and NATO member on military exercises in Poland. Lies, damn lies and politicians. I really expected us to be out of the EU, not being stapled to the apron strings and hobbled. Looks like May the remainer is getting her wish to be locked in a limbo state. Not married but not divorced either.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 28, 2018 16:45:36 GMT
But to pick out one remark you make, I see everyone worrying about millions of Brexit voters feeling disenfranchised whilst simultaneously apparently being completely unworried about the millions of Remain voters who already feel disenfranchised. Are we to be second-class citizens because we don't believe in the Brexit fantasy? 700,000 people marched through London against Brexit and by lunchtime the following day it wasn't even featuring in the headlines on the BBC's app.
And to be honest I think MMB represents a pretty hard yank on our bollocks by the EU and the less said about the ridicule we've already heaped on ourselves the better.
Way to completely miss the point - who said anything about it being Brexit voters feeling disenfranchised? What's your alternative - a grovelling apology and beg forgiveness? Did I really miss the point? Not convinced there I'm afraid.
I'm not after any apologies from voters - are you? In my view the only apologies are required from our politicians who have collectively conspired, wittingly and unwittingly to land us in this appalling mess in the first place.
Tories en masse for prioritising party interest over country interest. Cameron for being an arrogant arse. Osborne likewise. Farage for existing. Rees-Mogg and his ilk on grounds too numerous to list. BoJo for being a ghastly carpetbagger. May for being fixated on immigration and unable to think outside the box. David Davis for being useless. Labour for electing Corbyn. Corbyn for being useless. Lib Dems for being useless. DUP for being generally ghastly. House of Commons for having no spine.
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Post by michael on Nov 28, 2018 17:01:20 GMT
I'd add the EU Commission to your list for being so intransigent to change particularly on immigration. The continent as a whole appears to want reform.
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Post by michael on Nov 28, 2018 17:09:28 GMT
I'd also add Junker for failing to resign following the Brexit vote and further reinforcing the view that the Commission is unaccountable.
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Post by Roadsterstu on Nov 28, 2018 18:59:26 GMT
Way to completely miss the point - who said anything about it being Brexit voters feeling disenfranchised? What's your alternative - a grovelling apology and beg forgiveness? Did I really miss the point? Not convinced there I'm afraid.
I'm not after any apologies from voters - are you? In my view the only apologies are required from our politicians who have collectively conspired, wittingly and unwittingly to land us in this appalling mess in the first place.
Tories en masse for prioritising party interest over country interest. Cameron for being an arrogant arse. Osborne likewise. Farage for existing. Rees-Mogg and his ilk on grounds too numerous to list. BoJo for being a ghastly carpetbagger. May for being fixated on immigration and unable to think outside the box. David Davis for being useless. Labour for electing Corbyn. Corbyn for being useless. Lib Dems for being useless. DUP for being generally ghastly. House of Commons for having no spine.
Absolutely irrespective of which way you voted this list, or something very much like it (plus those in the EU, as mentioned by Michael) are what we now ALL need to concentrate our annoyance on. The EU have fully underlined to me exactly why we should leave and that possibility has been completely fucked up by the most useless bunch of elected fuckwits ever seen, the only alternative to which was an even more useless bunch of fuckwits.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 28, 2018 20:07:22 GMT
I'd also add Junker for failing to resign following the Brexit vote and further reinforcing the view that the Commission is unaccountable. Well, in a rare moment of unconscious nationalism on my part, I hadn't thought of them as "our politicians"...
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Post by michael on Nov 28, 2018 20:18:22 GMT
You restricted your blame to our UK politicians but I place some of the blame with the EU Commission who, until the end of March at least, are also our politicians.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 28, 2018 20:30:10 GMT
The EU have fully underlined to me exactly why we should leave. In what way?
There is absolutely nothing stopping us leaving via Hard Brexit. The EU would grant us that tomorrow if we wanted it because they can't stop us. Problem is that we don't actually want Hard Brexit, because it unavoidably creates all manner of bothersome real-world problems. What we want is Mr Johnson's Fantasy Brexit - the simultaneously possessed and eaten cake variety whereby we keep all the benefits of EU membership without the inconvenient obligations that come with being a member, a position which some people seem quite unaccountably to think we have some kind of divine right to.
The negotiations have been all about that - us trying to get as many benefits as we can whilst not being bound by EU rules, like some sort of sovereign state version of Delboy. That's always had a fairly quixotic flavour to it.
So what has the EU done in that regard that you disagree with, other than not simply giving us what we want when we have a tantrum?
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 28, 2018 20:31:02 GMT
You restricted your blame to our UK politicians but I place some of the blame with the EU Commission who, until the end of March at least, are also our politicians. Indeed.
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Post by Tim on Nov 29, 2018 11:12:59 GMT
In what way?
There is absolutely nothing stopping us leaving via Hard Brexit. The EU would grant us that tomorrow if we wanted it because they can't stop us. Problem is that we don't actually want Hard Brexit, because it unavoidably creates all manner of bothersome real-world problems. What we want is Mr Johnson's Fantasy Brexit - the simultaneously possessed and eaten cake variety whereby we keep all the benefits of EU membership without the inconvenient obligations that come with being a member, a position which some people seem quite unaccountably to think we have some kind of divine right to.
The negotiations have been all about that - us trying to get as many benefits as we can whilst not being bound by EU rules, like some sort of sovereign state version of Delboy. That's always had a fairly quixotic flavour to it.
So what has the EU done in that regard that you disagree with, other than not simply giving us what we want when we have a tantrum?
The EU appear to have approached this with a view that they're bigger than us and while they can't stop us leaving they would rather not make it too easy - perfectly understandable on the behalf of the politicians in the EU (as opposed to politicians in EU countries).
Our bunch of muppets appear to have taken the approach that says 'don't you know who we are?, we're the UK and you'll give us what we want.' That might've worked 50 years ago but not now.
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Post by Alex on Nov 29, 2018 13:19:46 GMT
In what way?
There is absolutely nothing stopping us leaving via Hard Brexit. The EU would grant us that tomorrow if we wanted it because they can't stop us. Problem is that we don't actually want Hard Brexit, because it unavoidably creates all manner of bothersome real-world problems. What we want is Mr Johnson's Fantasy Brexit - the simultaneously possessed and eaten cake variety whereby we keep all the benefits of EU membership without the inconvenient obligations that come with being a member, a position which some people seem quite unaccountably to think we have some kind of divine right to.
The negotiations have been all about that - us trying to get as many benefits as we can whilst not being bound by EU rules, like some sort of sovereign state version of Delboy. That's always had a fairly quixotic flavour to it.
So what has the EU done in that regard that you disagree with, other than not simply giving us what we want when we have a tantrum?
The EU appear to have approached this with a view that they're bigger than us and while they can't stop us leaving they would rather not make it too easy - perfectly understandable on the behalf of the politicians in the EU (as opposed to politicians in EU countries).
Our bunch of muppets appear to have taken the approach that says 'don't you know who we are?, we're the UK and you'll give us what we want.' That might've worked 50 years ago but not now. I think that’s absolutely the case. Both sides have approached the negotiations with the mindset that the other side needs us more than we need them which has massively hindered an agreement that is good for all concerned. It isnt right for us in the UK to be able to have our cake and eat it in the same way that cancelling your gym membership shouldn’t allow you to be free to continue using the treadmills. But equally it isn’t right for the EU to try and punish us for choosing to leave - it’s almost the equivalent of the gym you’ve left giving you a broken arm on the way out to stop you working out elsewhere. They have to protect the interests of their member states, of course, but this Brexit deal is not the way because there’s such a massive chance that it won’t get through our parliament and that we’ll leave with no deal. That will cause as much harm to their members as it does to us. There might be huge queues at Dover our end but the traffic coming this way through Calais is hardly light so the French will have just as big a problem. Both sides have have also failed to put in place some sort of contingency should this deal not get through. A hard no-deal Brexit is not a suitable fall back option. Triggering article 50 without first devising a plan of action was the starting point of this monumental fuck up but Bo-Jo didn’t exactly step up and tell us not to do it. It is understandable that Theresa May has been the subject to significant criticism from Boris and Rees-Mogg, but neither have put forward an alternative plan that suggests they can do any better. Theres still so much uncertainty and it’s still too difficult to know which of our leaders or indeed which side of the media is telling the truth that I’ve no idea if what I’ve just written is correct.
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Post by michael on Nov 29, 2018 13:47:56 GMT
Triggering article 50 without first devising a plan of action was the starting point of this monumental fuck up but Bo-Jo didn’t exactly step up and tell us not to do it. Could be worse, Corbyn wanted to trigger it the day after the referendum result.
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Post by racingteatray on Nov 29, 2018 15:30:41 GMT
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Post by racingteatray on Dec 11, 2018 17:41:08 GMT
So....
Any bets on what's going to happen next?
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Post by michael on Dec 11, 2018 17:50:33 GMT
So.... Any bets on what's going to happen next? Nobody would be so insane as to take or place that bet.
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Post by racingteatray on Feb 6, 2019 22:52:51 GMT
This is rather amusing:
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Post by Tim on Feb 15, 2019 16:32:36 GMT
What was last night's vote?
I'm struggling to retain interest in these now as every proposal seems to be a slight variation of a previous one but with different factions voting for/against.
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