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Post by Tim on Sept 26, 2018 13:55:42 GMT
Labour are taking the piss at the moment aren't they?
There were 2 of their bods getting interviewed on the Radio yesterday evening and one of them - sounded like a youngish guy - stated that they needed to return to their roots and get back in touch with the 'working man' as that was the clear road to allow them back into power. That's worked well for at least the last 40 years, hasn't it? Have they already forgotten that the reason they governed for 13 years relatively recently is because a) the Tories had lost the plot and b) the Labour offering was somewhere in the centre ground. Moving further to the left isn't going to get them in power, the evidence from the rest of the world is that things are moving to the right.
Now some teenage girl is calling for a general strike as well. What's that going to do apart from piss off the majority of the population who aren't union members or left wing activists?
Corbyn's also going to magic up 400k jobs in green industries apparently.
As an organisation they appear to have completely failed to spot that the Tories are currently at their most vulnerable, riven with opposing factions about their usual favourite subject, and yet they still don't seem to give any impression that they're running way ahead in the polls, etc.
More than ever I think we need to be given a 'None of the above' option on voting slips.
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Post by johnc on Sept 26, 2018 14:33:37 GMT
I'll certainly be voting for none of the above. However my voting is always tactical to keep out people I don't want instead of voting for someone I do want. At the moment there is no-one I want so I am just picking the best of a bad bunch.
Jeremy's 400,000 green workers will probably be posted in booths every mile along every motorway to collect green subscriptions from all the filthy rich polluting motorists going past. I am afraid that the politics of envy and the principles of Marx are not really mainstream vote winners but at the same time many a population has been duped by false promises and lies only to find their world come crashing down around them 10 years later, often violently. The young voters worry me because they see Corbyn's light as a brighter future without knowing or experiencing what happened the last time the pied piper came walking past. |
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 26, 2018 15:49:04 GMT
As if there's not already at least 400K "green jobs" anyway. And then you dig deeper and you see that of these supposedly high wage, skilled jobs, 160K are stuffing insulation into lofts. You couldn't make it up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:48:28 GMT
The bit from the conference that I saw on the news was "And if we can't get the result we want we have to ask our brothers and sisters in the unions to get it for us with a general strike". Now I like a bit of free speech as much as anyone but, that is treason. A main stream party (supposedly) promoting treason. This from someone from that working class they so frequently mention, but do nothing for. I went to the lengths of emailing them with an opinion on what to do when they get there.
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Post by LandieMark on Sept 26, 2018 17:31:03 GMT
I don’t find it funny in the slightest. Terrifying is more like it.
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Post by Martin on Sept 26, 2018 18:11:07 GMT
I don’t find it funny in the slightest. Terrifying is more like it. +1! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 18:26:36 GMT
It seems to me that the point of politics these days is coming up with wallpaper stories to cover up the real cracks in parties. Exactly how many anti-Semites have been chucked out of the Labour party so far for example? That's a thing that is trying to keep its head above the waves and that Palestinian sympathiser Corbyn keeps pushing back under trying to drown it properly.
The whole Salisbury thing stinks of rotten fish, too...
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 26, 2018 20:29:27 GMT
It says a lot that on my floor in a govt department there is completely underwhelming support and conversation for the Labour movement in its current form.
I expect that during the ConConf but not Labour.
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Post by Tim on Sept 27, 2018 8:33:51 GMT
Actually I find the whole of politics terrifying at the moment.
Labour are a joke - they could've made the whole anti-semitic thing go away very quickly by just adopting the international standard and no matter what they thought privately simply paid lip service to it (as I'm sure happens elsewhere) but no, they had to debate and nit-pick it in public.
The Tories scare me because they clearly want rid of Theresa May but are waiting until some form of agreement is reached with Europe.
Then the agitators will strike, presumably once a trade deal has been arranged but before anything political, which apparently follows on after we've actually left.
So you'll get one administration doing the first deal and a completely different one, with presumably a different viewpoint doing the second one.
I feel embarassed by the whole lot of them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 9:44:15 GMT
Ditto, if labour had their heads on straight we would already be heading for a change but it is impossible to chose between three lame duck partly's.
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Post by Tim on Sept 27, 2018 9:46:14 GMT
Yup, which is where the 'none of the above' option would come in handy.
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Post by johnc on Sept 27, 2018 10:33:11 GMT
Corbyn's statement yesterday in his closing speech that he would immediately recognise the Palestinian nation if he got in to power shows that the Jewish issue is far from dead and buried in the Labour party, especially at the top - he would be just as divisive in his foreign policy as Donald Trump but in a completely different way. It certainly wouldn't be plain sailing if Corbyn were in power: we might get to some nice places but it would be bloody rough along the way and I'm really not sure the ship is sufficiently sea worthy for that.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 27, 2018 11:24:40 GMT
Yup, which is where the 'none of the above' option would come in handy. I'm not sure how that would help. If 60% of the ballot papers came back with "None of the above" ticked as an option what are the Tories or Labour going to do? The None of the Above Party has no MPs and can't form a Government and the other parties aren't going to take it as some sort of slap on the wrist and suddenly re-do their whole manifestos. |
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Post by PetrolEd on Sept 27, 2018 11:39:52 GMT
Its bizarre for sure.
Where is the credible alternative to what we have? Labour should be clearing up in the polls, they wouldn't even need a Blair type but anyone half sensible like Chuka Umunna would have made massive gains.
The Tories should be dead in the water but you'd probably put your house on them getting in over labour. Its also odd that no credible middle/right party has been born out of the shit storm. A breakaway bunch of MP's like pro Euro Tories and middle ground labourites I thought would have been established.
That fact I forgot the liberals even exist is all that needs to be said about that party.
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Post by Tim on Sept 27, 2018 12:12:31 GMT
Yup, which is where the 'none of the above' option would come in handy. I'm not sure how that would help. If 60% of the ballot papers came back with "None of the above" ticked as an option what are the Tories or Labour going to do? The None of the Above Party has no MPs and can't form a Government and the other parties aren't going to take it as some sort of slap on the wrist and suddenly re-do their whole manifestos.
Yeah I know. It makes me sad. Even if something like 70% voted for 'none of the above' the current parties wouldn't pay any attention to it.
A protest vote will just have to take the form of a tactical one.
Ed, there was a piece on the news somewhere a couple of weeks ago about the break off of the SDP from Labour (?) in the 1980s and it made the point that even with some proper political heavyweights behind it there was relatively little disturbance in the usual order. I think that's a clear message for the current lot.
I'm hoping now that the Labour success last time round was a bit of a blip and that they really stand no chance of getting into power.
However, the downside to that would be that the Tories would be in power and while they appear fairly central at the moment it worries me a lot how long that would last since the knives have been out for May for months now. We could easily end up with the arsehole Johnson in power surrounded by his right wing anti-Europe buddies like Rees-Mogg and I'm not sure that's a prospect that fills me with joy either.
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Post by PG on Sept 27, 2018 12:52:50 GMT
While we have a first past the post voting system, a break away or new party will fail to make any traction. But a pure PR system would leave us with permanent limbo - as is happening across much of Europe at the moment.
Labour scare the heck out of me. Too many people don't remember the 1970's and they were shit.
And in reality, Labour are just as divided over the EU as the Conservatives. Baroness Chakrabarti (she whose totally balanced and factual report - which got her her peerage - found no evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party) was on R4 yesterday at lunchtime. She was asked that if the desired general election came about tomorrow, what would Labour's manifesto commitment on the EU be? She proceeded to not answer the question about three times.
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 27, 2018 13:14:42 GMT
FPP is still the correct way. If you want PR go and look at our current situation whereby mad Orangemen can dictate to the leading party on matters of policy on the mainland that will not affect them in any way or to Austria or Germany where the leading party has to pander to mad right wingers and greens in equal measure.
Our current problem is having no party with any track record of governing that looks like they are fit to govern. As has been pointed out we should be looking at a Labour government next time, no messing. This would have 2 effects: remind everyone why it's horrible and allow the Conservatives to regroup and follow 5 years of loony leftism with 15 years of conservatism. But the Labour Party leadership rules mean that complete MORONS get to vote for a very unsuitable leader who then extends his extreme left agenda so that at party conference the stand is full of idiots that spout off about calling a general strike, allowing teachers to teach, renationalising everything (probably even supermarkets if they had their way) and reclaiming "our NHS" (which needs complete restructuring and re assignment of its responsibilities as opposed to "reclaiming"). So to swing voters (and social changes means there are far more of these than in the '70s and '80s) are looking at that lot and are saying "no way".
Those same swing voters look at the Conservatives and see that an in-party argument got us into this whole Brexit mess, that the teams running the Brexit campaign (former and current) are self-serving, self-publicist megalomaniacs or clueless yes men and that whatever happens after March 2019 there will be a completely different cabinet and are saying "no way". Then they look at the Lib Dems and see that when they had an opportunity to temper the Conservatives they failed and the UKIP party has basically attained its aim of getting Article 50 in place and has some very unsavoury characters in its hierarchy and are saying "no way".
What we will end up with is the hard core rights voting Con, the hard core Left voting Lab, the swing voters tossing a coin between change for change's sake and better the devil you know and the other 40% of voters not bothering.
One thing is certain and one thing only: Jeremy Hunt is the next Leader of the Conservative party. Get your bets on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 13:57:45 GMT
Boris has sunk his boat and after Mrs May gets the heave ho, they could easily do much worse. A much better head on his shoulders than many.
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Post by PG on Sept 27, 2018 19:01:46 GMT
It's Jeremy Hunt v Savid Javid for the next leader.
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Post by Roadrunner on Sept 27, 2018 19:16:34 GMT
It's Jeremy Hunt v Savid Javid for the next leader. My thoughts exactly. I would go for Javid, if only to beat Labour to having the first non-white leader. Yes, Labour, supposedly the 'right on' choice for milleniels; bit still yet to elect anyone other than a white middle class male as leader. |
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Post by Tim on Sept 28, 2018 8:21:53 GMT
They did manage to conjure up a dour Scotsman at one point!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Sept 28, 2018 8:37:12 GMT
They did manage to conjure up a dour Scotsman at one point! It gets to something when you start to look fondly on Blair & Brown. |
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Post by LandieMark on Sept 28, 2018 9:08:40 GMT
One of our local smallholders is related to Jeremy Corbin and has just appeared on their latest party political broadcast. The drone footage is where I live, which despite being in NW Durham constituency is fairly blue politically.
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Post by Tim on Sept 28, 2018 9:35:53 GMT
They did manage to conjure up a dour Scotsman at one point! It gets to something when you start to look fondly on Blair & Brown.
As with everything it appeared to be better than what had immediately preceded it - I think the Tories had lost the plot by the mid-90s yet gave the impression they could do whatever they wanted and not be held accountable.
Similarly to the Tories, they ended up being in power for too long.
Mark, presumably NW Durham is a mainly farming area thus traditionally a blue vote area?
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Post by LandieMark on Sept 28, 2018 12:27:46 GMT
We are a labour constituency due to the towns, but the rural parts are mainly Tory voting. NW Durham is a safe labour seat due to the mining history.
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Post by Big Blue on Sept 28, 2018 12:33:10 GMT
We are a labour constituency due to the towns, but the rural parts are mainly Tory voting. NW Durham is a safe labour seat due to the mining history. See what bollocks that I've highlighted is. |
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Post by LandieMark on Sept 28, 2018 12:34:49 GMT
We are a labour constituency due to the towns, but the rural parts are mainly Tory voting. NW Durham is a safe labour seat due to the mining history. See what bollocks that I've highlighted is. Yup. They still whine on about it up here and it is still all Maggie’s fault! 🙄 our local MP is Laura Pidcock which says it all. |
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Post by Alex on Sept 28, 2018 15:51:19 GMT
See what bollocks that I've highlighted is. Yup. They still whine on about it up here and it is still all Maggie’s fault! 🙄 our local MP is Laura Pidcock which says it all. Nothing to do with the fact no one burns coal these days and even what little coal we do still need for power stations is not mined by sending thousands of men below ground with pick axes. Nothing to do with Arthur Scargill picking fights either. |
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Post by Tim on Sept 28, 2018 15:56:39 GMT
You could argue about safe seats all ways.
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