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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 10:11:02 GMT
It seems that despite handing all WMD over to the international community, sorry Russia, the Syrian government is still determined to play with nasty toys against its own people. I wonder why we still alow the august body known as the UN to exist considering it does absolutely nothing but talk. Just how much could we save by NOT putting dosh into their kitty?
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Post by Tim on Apr 11, 2017 10:26:56 GMT
I was disappointed at their response last week as they accepted the Russian line that a normal bomb had set off a rebel chemical weapons dump so therefore it wasn't Assad's fault. I think every chemical weapon expert in the world then turned round and said that was bollocks yet still the UN did nothing (as usual).
It must be difficult for them to give a shit about stuff like this while they're accommodated in top-notch hotels, etc around the world.
I remember seeing images of rag wearing displaced refugees from the Balkans freezing in the open during a cold winter while their various leaders were all smiles and handshakes wearing business suits (or medal-festooned combat gear) and being waited on hand and foot in the lap of luxury at some marble lined venue in Geneva. I bet theyd've come to a deal somewhat quicker in an unheated hut halfway up an Alp.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 11, 2017 10:54:40 GMT
I'm still puzzled as to why, at this particular time, when he's winning and is in the strongest position he's been in for 5 years, Assad decides to use chemical weapons now, risking Worldwide condemnation. I'm also puzzled as to why he waited until the Chinese Premier was meeting with Trump, who was looking for an opportunity to bolster his image and send a warning to the Koreans and the Chinese that he would act alone, thus giving him this perfect opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 11:02:01 GMT
I smell something very fishy. Assad and the Russians had nothing to gain but very much to lose through the use of WMD's. Assad and Putin are very astute fellows, I can't see any circumstances by wich ordering the use of WMD's would be a good idea.
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Post by Boxer6 on Apr 11, 2017 11:19:51 GMT
I smell something very fishy. Assad and the Russians had nothing to gain but very much to lose through the use of WMD's. Assad and Putin are very astute fellows, I can't see any circumstances by wich ordering the use of WMD's would be a good idea. Which then leads on to the next most obvious conclusion; it wasn't him/them wot dun it!
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 11, 2017 11:34:00 GMT
Much is puzzling in this affairs and what is certain is that we don't know the half of it. However, it's also perfectly conceivable that Assad thought he had the cat in the bag after what the Americans had said the previous week, and figured that Trump wouldn't want to (i) change tack or (ii) annoy the Russians. And I'd be willing to bet he would do that without consulting the Russians first. Assad may be astute in some senses, but every interview I've ever seen with him makes him come across as utterly divorced from reality and of a mindset that sees individual citizens as simple pawns to be expended at will.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 11, 2017 12:16:53 GMT
A cynic would say that on the brink of defeat a desperate Syrian opposition might resort to gassing their own people to provoke some retaliation on the regime that was bombing them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 12:28:26 GMT
A cynic would say that on the brink of defeat a desperate Syrian opposition might resort to gassing their own people to provoke some retaliation on the regime that was bombing them. I must be a cynic because this is the only scenario that maked sense to me
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Post by scouse on Apr 11, 2017 12:40:16 GMT
A cynic would say that on the brink of defeat a desperate Syrian opposition might resort to gassing their own people to provoke some retaliation on the regime that was bombing them. I must be a cynic because this is the only scenario that maked sense to me And me.
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Post by franki68 on Apr 11, 2017 15:03:24 GMT
It seems that despite handing all WMD over to the international community, sorry Russia, the Syrian government is still determined to play with nasty toys against its own people. I wonder why we still alow the august body known as the UN to exist considering it does absolutely nothing but talk. Just how much could we save by NOT putting dosh into their kitty? The UN is one of the most corrupt organizations on the planet.Decisions are made based on voting pacts much like the eurovision song contest. I have personal experience in th epast with quite senior UN staff and it is a disgrace of an organization.
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Post by Alex on Apr 11, 2017 15:51:16 GMT
I must be a cynic because this is the only scenario that maked sense to me And me. Either that or Assad felt he had enough backing from Russia to get away with it. I agree he's supposedly winning the war but it's a long way from being won and this may have been his way of settling the matter once and for all. He knew the world would condemn his action but he was also confident that Russia would have his back. And it turns out he's right, they do and they even bombed a hospital treating survivors to help him cover his tracks. He also knows that for all that we laugh at their old aircraft carrier when it wheezes its way through the English Channel, the West is shit scared of going to war with Russia as it comes with China too. As for the UN, I understand the frustration but remember that Russia is a member and as any military action can be blocked by just one member not agreeing on it, any action against the Syrian regime has to be taken outside of any UN agreements (and at the risk of all out war with Russia). But yes the UN doesn't help its reputation by having an entertainment budget that's on a par with FIFAs!
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Post by alf on Apr 11, 2017 17:39:44 GMT
This is one instance (the only?) where I agree with Trump. It still pains me that the action of the UK Parliament (steered by Ed "the wrong" Milliband) prevented a similar punishment strike after the last large-scale gas attacks on civilians in Syria. Then was a much more suitable time to act than now. People need to understand the difference between a punishment strike and putting boots on the ground, or getting involved in the ongoing war.
Limited strikes won't end the humanitarian crisis but the latest attack again crossed a red line for me, which needed a response before more "rogue states" try it on.
Why Assad would do it - after claiming to have got rid of WMD - is a good question. The Russians are absolute experts at spreading "fake news" and challenging "the establishment" online and - as they did after shooting down that Malaysian airlines jet - they make a lot of noise very quickly. But nerve agent especially, and chemical weapons generally, are quite difficult to deliver effectively without destroying the agent (which is what would happen if you accidentally hit the munitions dump, as the Russians claim). I suspect - just like when the Malaysian jet was downed - the shit hit the fan big time in the Russian high command, unless this was just an early feeler to see just how pro-Russia Trump was feeling. In which case it backfired - badly.
The Syrians have used chemical weapons quite regularly on a small scale, this just happened to be another large scale attack, and probably got more news coverage, more quickly, than the Syrians/Russians anticipated... And the Russians are absolute arseholes - they have systematically and deliberately targeted hospitals and aid organisations again and again during their involvement in Syria, while constantly denying it. Trust nothing they say.
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Post by racingteatray on Apr 11, 2017 19:15:14 GMT
I agree with alf.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 20:40:09 GMT
The Asshat has a very credible cover for using this kind of weapon and that is playing Russia and the US against each other. Putin and Trump also need to have a credible cover for any conspiracist suggestion that they are in league with each other. Sabre rattling it may be but Asshat is covered either way.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 6:37:16 GMT
For me this goes for both sides. "In war, truth is the first casualty."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 6:39:51 GMT
Pentagon awards contract to United Airlines to forcibly remove Assad: link
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Post by Tim on Apr 12, 2017 8:59:53 GMT
I wondered if Assad feels completely untouchable and is so arrogant that he ordered the strike (or maybe not him personally but obviously a senior person in the regime) and just doesn't expect there to be direct consequences.
The US strike clearly took everyone by surprise as usually with these kind of retaliatory strikes the regime almost immediately ushers a load of journalists to some school or hospital that they claim was hit in error. You always have a strong feeling that they did it themselves for propaganda purposes.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Apr 12, 2017 13:53:56 GMT
I wondered if Assad feels completely untouchable and is so arrogant that he ordered the strike (or maybe not him personally but obviously a senior person in the regime) and just doesn't expect there to be direct consequences. Exactly, if anyone thinks that in a 'war' you step off the gas when your enemy is weak and there is 'nothing to be gained' then I suggest they do some reading around the subject... It was certainly the creed that Napoloen's Imperial Guard followed at Waterloo and General Pickett's Confederates at Gettysburgh or Ludendorff's offensives on the Western Front in 1917 and it all worked out well for them. Or King Harold's army at the Battle of Hastings in 1066... Oh hang on...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 17:10:31 GMT
The latest research and archeological digs located the battle to be in the village rather than having King Harold's army on the crest of the hill where Battle Abbey now stands. The land around the site was marsh and bog ate the time of the battle and the Normans would have been funneled into a very small approach road leading directly through the village. You may have seen the Time Team program that backed all of this up with various finds and documentation from nearer the time. It is rather sad that schools still teach by rote rather than accepting more recent information. Sorry, school swat hat off.
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Post by alf on Apr 18, 2017 13:59:29 GMT
You've got to love a forum that can turn a thread about WMD in Syria around to the location of the Battle of Hastings !!!
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