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Post by Big Blue on Aug 1, 2018 22:13:54 GMT
When I said "on our own", I meant with trading arrangements in place, not surviving without any foreign trade or immigration/emigration. We should surely be able to put in place new legislation that replaces European Directive-inspired laws which continues to allow (free) movement of goods and people with other European nations No. EU states have to abide by the EU directives. The UK can’t sign a trade agreement with Germany because Germany trades on EU rules, hence the recent fanfare for an EU - Japan trade deal: do we think Japan is desperate for Grecian olive oil and Austrian pharmaceuticals or German manufactured goods? So the EU don’t want to trade with us on decent terms simply to teach us a lesson. There really is no other rational explanation. On the EU directive issue, the directives are designed so that local member states implement them via their own parliamentary protocol and pass laws that correspond to the requirements of the EU Directives. So we already have EU compliant laws.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 2, 2018 7:26:46 GMT
So the EU don’t want to trade with us on decent terms simply to teach us a lesson. There really is no other rational explanation. As I've said before, running a country is far too important to be left to politicians... "to teach us a lesson" is no way to behave. Shoot the lot of them !
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 2, 2018 9:23:48 GMT
So the EU don’t want to trade with us on decent terms simply to teach us a lesson. There really is no other rational explanation. As I've said before, running a country is far too important to be left to politicians... "to teach us a lesson" is no way to behave. Shoot the lot of them ! The Septics came to the same conclusion so they elected Trump and now it's all going swimmingly.
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Post by Tim on Aug 2, 2018 9:41:46 GMT
No cynicism required. 1. We beat the Germans twice last century and now they can get their own back economically. 2. The French have never liked us. None of the remaining 25 EU Counties have such a decisive voice, ergo we're going to get fucked over. As someone with a Mother living in France, a half-German step-brother living in Germany and a Slovak partner with a sister married to an Afghani living in Czech let me assure you that the rest of the EU think we're arseholes too. Here are some reasons why, clearly stated to me on regular occasions: Our men are largely homosexuals (not enough enforced competitive sport from a young age; women have too much say in society and pink shirts are available to buy in men's departments); our women are drunken bitches that don't even have the sense to sell their pussies for sex and just give it away and our children are forced to start school at the age of 4 yet still have a higher percentage of low attainers by the age of 18 than those that start school at 7. Despite all this we think we are the envy of the world, that we invented everything worth inventing and think that all foreigners are to be despised and treated with suspicion as they are clearly all criminals, yet we have a police force stymied by legal challenges in enforcing order and a capital city with levels of street crime and violence that surpass those of NYC on many occasions. Basically they can't wait to rid of us to get the EU stats on "quality of life" higher up the world charts!
People from the former Soviet states are certainly forthright in their views. My not quite sister in law has some strange ideas about disabled people, conveniently overlooking and future issues in relation to her own health as a sufferer of particularly severe Crones disease. While I agree that we are guilty of sometimes being too concerned for the feelings of others in a lot of situations I'm not sure 'their' way is entirely correct either.
Anyway, as a resident of Scotland I expect to be chherily cast adrift by Westminster once the oil has run out and we'll see how welcoming Europe are to a small country with a long history of innovators
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Post by johnc on Aug 2, 2018 9:47:07 GMT
I think there are some die hards in the EU who would rather everyone suffers than give the UK a decent deal. They don't feel secure with the EU's stability and they are never going to show other member states that they can do as well or better when outside the EU.
As was said at the beginning of the campaign for the referendum, Norway has a deal which gives it free trade with the EU but it costs Norway more per head of population to have their deal than it costs the UK to be a member of the EU, where we benefit from EU funded construction and investment in the UK which Norway doesn't get.
As I have said before one of my biggest fears with Brexit is that it is a disaster on so many fronts that the Government collapses, we have Political turmoil and we end up with a Corbyn led spend as you please Government who will decimate the finances of the UK for the next 20 years.......and that lifeboat called the EU that we could step onto seamlessly if we wanted, will have sailed. Stuck here, f*cked up and penniless. A great future for our children.
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Post by Tim on Aug 2, 2018 9:50:44 GMT
I can't see that wee'll end up with a purely Labour government* However, if we end up with a Labour + ANOther party coalition I can only hope the other mob are more effective at limiting some extreme policies than the Limp Dems were with the Tories.
*I hope!
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Post by johnc on Aug 2, 2018 10:05:15 GMT
I can't see that wee'll end up with a purely Labour government* However, if we end up with a Labour + ANOther party coalition I can only hope the other mob are more effective at limiting some extreme policies than the Limp Dems were with the Tories. *I hope! In car terms, I think our political system is like the car which you once thought was great, then it was too good to get rid of but now it's giving so much trouble with the potential for massive bills, that it needs to be traded in.
EDIT: Corbyn has already shown a ruthlessness to anyone who disagrees with him, so a few Limp Dems or Greens are very quickly going to be put in their place. As for the SNP, Corbyn dislikes Scotland so no deal there.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 2, 2018 10:09:14 GMT
I think there are some die hards in the EU who would rather everyone suffers than give the UK a decent deal. They don't feel secure with the EU's stability and they are never going to show other member states that they can do as well or better when outside the EU.
As was said at the beginning of the campaign for the referendum, Norway has a deal which gives it free trade with the EU but it costs Norway more per head of population to have their deal than it costs the UK to be a member of the EU, where we benefit from EU funded construction and investment in the UK which Norway doesn't get.
As I have said before one of my biggest fears with Brexit is that it is a disaster on so many fronts that the Government collapses, we have Political turmoil and we end up with a Corbyn led spend as you please Government who will decimate the finances of the UK for the next 20 years.......and that lifeboat called the EU that we could step onto seamlessly if we wanted, will have sailed. Stuck here, f*cked up and penniless. A great future for our children. I work with a lot of Norwegians and the weeks after the referendum they were all congratulating us for finally growing a backbone and voting to leave. I'm not sure I shared their enthusiasm. The EU need to have it clearly laid out to them that should the UK crash out without any deal the resulting damage to the UK economy will leave its finances in a parlous state. Further payments due to the UK will have to be deferred until some time in the future and the country is in a better fiscal position to meet them, the cost of maintaining UK defense forces in Europe will be an unsustainable burden and they will need to be withdrawn within our own borders, currency limits will need to be reimposed on travelers to the EU, limiting the amount of money they can spend within it, tariffs on UK goods and services entering the EU will have to be reciprocated to support the UK industries affected, and Corporation taxes will have to be slashed to mirror the Ireland model in attracting businesses.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 10:10:15 GMT
So the EU don’t want to trade with us on decent terms simply to teach us a lesson. There really is no other rational explanation. As I've said before, running a country is far too important to be left to politicians... "to teach us a lesson" is no way to behave. Shoot the lot of them ! Too good for them, I believe we are behind the curve in our artificial reef construction so that lot in a decommissioned oil tanker would be a good start to getting back on track.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 2, 2018 12:16:37 GMT
As I've said before, running a country is far too important to be left to politicians... "to teach us a lesson" is no way to behave. Shoot the lot of them ! The Septics came to the same conclusion so they elected Trump and now it's all going swimmingly. So did the sceptics......
Let's sell out and become the 51st state of the USA !
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 2, 2018 21:56:07 GMT
Not sure how anyone can compare the UK with Norway. Norway is the country with the largest sovereign wealth fund on the planet; this wealth fund actually funds projects in the EU, as opposed to the EU funding Norse projects, which of course means the EU needs to bend over backwards to accommodate Norway, a position the UK will never ever be in as long as the sun burns in the sky. That it costs Norway more to access the EU than it costs the UK for capita is something else that Norway basically doesn't give a shit about either: they can afford it and it saves them having to buy all their stuff from Americans, Chinese and Russians.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 7, 2018 21:10:05 GMT
Our men are largely homosexuals (not enough enforced competitive sport from a young age; women have too much say in society and pink shirts are available to buy in men's departments); our women are drunken bitches that don't even have the sense to sell their pussies for sex and just give it away Indeed and I confess I do struggle with this chauvinist streak in Slavic mentality. I used to hear all this bollocks in Russia and found it extremely basic. You don't have to have gender neutral lavatories and all that nonsense, but a less dog-eat-dog approach to the less fortunate or simply different is just a hallmark of being considered a genuinely civilised people in my view. Cultural differences can take a running jump on this one.
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Post by Tim on Aug 8, 2018 8:10:32 GMT
You just have to watch some of the Youtube clip shows of car crashes/road rage to see what's wrong with the Eastern parts of Europe/Russia. They all appear to have at least a baseball bat in the boot and are suffering from some form of Alpha Male identity problem. It must be extremely tiring for them having to prove how masculine they are all the time so no wonder they expect their women to be more like servants and do their bidding.
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Post by Alex on Aug 8, 2018 12:48:27 GMT
There’s been a few Brexit related issues highlighted on a certain LBC presenters show recently which are rather concerning. Firstly the whole issue of a no deal Brexit meaning we go to WTO trading rules. Turns out we probably can’t do that because we need to have a deal in place with the WTO that sets the terms by which we want to trade and as it stands, the plans we’ve so far proposed have been rejected by at least ten members of the WTO including USA, Australia and New Zealand. Given that they are three of the countries brexiteers have been claiming we’ll do business with, that’s somewhat alarming and could mean all exported products from the UK to whatever destination could be subject to tariffs of up to 40%. Any businesses in is country who produce goods for export could have their competitiveness wiped out overnight. Those three countries have also stated, apparently, that an individual trade deal with the UK is not on their agenda at the moment because they are currently busy sorting their trade agreement with the EU!
Another revelation I heard yesterday surrounds the European arrest warrant system. Apparently an Irish citizen who has been convicted of tax fraud in London has, having been arrested by the Garda, successfully appealed against extradition to the UK because his prison sentence will still be in force past March 2019 and therefore there is no guarantee that the UK can make that his incarceration will be in line with the European Court of Human Rights rules. This means we potentially already have lost the ability to bring potential criminals who have fled to the European mainland back to the UK to face justice.
But we’re going to get our blue passports back so it’s all good.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 9, 2018 8:18:28 GMT
No cynicism required. 1. We beat the Germans twice last century and now they can get their own back economically. 2. The French have never liked us. None of the remaining 25 EU Counties have such a decisive voice, ergo we're going to get fucked over. As someone with a Mother living in France, a half-German step-brother living in Germany and a Slovak partner with a sister married to an Afghani living in Czech let me assure you that the rest of the EU think we're arseholes too. Here are some reasons why, clearly stated to me on regular occasions: Our men are largely homosexuals (not enough enforced competitive sport from a young age; women have too much say in society and pink shirts are available to buy in men's departments); our women are drunken bitches that don't even have the sense to sell their pussies for sex and just give it away and our children are forced to start school at the age of 4 yet still have a higher percentage of low attainers by the age of 18 than those that start school at 7. Despite all this we think we are the envy of the world, that we invented everything worth inventing and think that all foreigners are to be despised and treated with suspicion as they are clearly all criminals, yet we have a police force stymied by legal challenges in enforcing order and a capital city with levels of street crime and violence that surpass those of NYC on many occasions. Basically they can't wait to rid of us to get the EU stats on "quality of life" higher up the world charts! The day we start worrying about what a bunch of homophobic, racist, misogynist fascists think about us will be the day we really have lost our values as a nation.
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Post by racingteatray on Aug 9, 2018 11:24:01 GMT
On a lighter note, this made me laugh like a drain:
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Post by Tim on Aug 10, 2018 11:28:46 GMT
Today's stories about arch Brexiteer Jim Ratcliffe must surely be a bit of Brexit satire?
I mean, there's no way someone who pushed Brexit would then move to Monaco (to reduce/avoid paying tax to HM Treasury) AND get a proposed LR Defender type vehicle developed in Germany is there.......
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 10, 2018 11:53:06 GMT
Today's stories about arch Brexiteer Jim Ratcliffe must surely be a bit of Brexit satire? I mean, there's no way someone who pushed Brexit would then move to Monaco (to reduce/avoid paying tax to HM Treasury) AND get a proposed LR Defender type vehicle developed in Germany is there....... I dunno, Sean Connery has spent years promoting Scottish independence from his tax exile haven in the Bahamas.
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Post by Tim on Aug 10, 2018 12:18:59 GMT
Feels like Jim Ratcliffe has landed us with a bag of shite and is now pissing off whereas Sean Connery is just trying to land us with the shite having already pissed off.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 10, 2018 13:18:14 GMT
Jim Ratcliffe's a good bloke, actually. He's built a very successful company and invested heavily in this country, including fighting the Scottish government to keep jobs here. He's more than earned the right to live where he likes and what the connection to his Brexit stance is I have no idea.
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Post by Tim on Aug 10, 2018 13:53:21 GMT
.....and what the connection to his Brexit stance is I have no idea.
Perhaps I'm mistaken but I see a pro Brexit stance as being nationalistic (not that Remain isn't). To then place business with those nasty Europeans when the expertise also exists in this country seems a tad contradictory.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 10, 2018 19:02:43 GMT
.....and what the connection to his Brexit stance is I have no idea.
Perhaps I'm mistaken but I see a pro Brexit stance as being nationalistic (not that Remain isn't). To then place business with those nasty Europeans when the expertise also exists in this country seems a tad contradictory.
I think you are mistaken. INEOS have invested heavily in the UK. If Jim Radcliffe has promoted a pro Brexit stance he must feel it is to the advantage of his UK operations. I'm not in a position to know if that's true or not. I certainly don't see anything contradictory in his place of residence.
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 10, 2018 21:28:33 GMT
I must say we had foreign based British industrialists long before we had an EU.
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Post by Tim on Aug 14, 2018 9:42:10 GMT
Agreed, I think the timing is shit more than anything given we're still in the midst of an extremely decisive change.
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