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Post by racingteatray on Jul 19, 2018 12:58:16 GMT
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Post by Alex on Jul 19, 2018 21:35:57 GMT
Well Brexit has got so disastrous I guess all we have left is to laugh about it.
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Post by Big Blue on Jul 20, 2018 9:57:14 GMT
We're now confronted by the things that Leave campaigns never told us about, but then neither did Remain campaigns use them to warn of the dangers. Simple things like needing an international permit to drive in the EU, something that needs administrating - which of course will eat into the vast sums of cash available for the NHS from the sums we are not sending to Brussels; we already have a a bloated DIT to pay for out of that pot as well as funding various Brexit ministerial and administrative posts. Then the Irish are going to refuse airspace rights for planes coming in to the UK over them, which is nothing if not petty and Northern Ireland are refusing to be forced to have restrictive trade with their nearest partner, the south.
Basically the target should be a trade agreement with quotas and standards that meet EU regs for exports and UK rules for imports: these will become the same rules after, oooh shall we give it a week? Free movement will remain but will be time barred so you need to fill in additional forms and have different excuses to stay in the UK to work and live long-term which the EU will reciprocate. The issues of laws and ruling courts will be the biggest bug bear and this will take years of cost and administrative horrors to resolve so in the interim the trade and people movement will just continue either as is now or as is suggested in my first two sentences of this paragraph.
The entire exercise is a colossal waste of money, resources and for some people their lives (as they'll be working on this shite day and night for several years).
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Jul 20, 2018 10:43:19 GMT
I'm fed up with the whole lot. Both sides are taking the piss now - both the UK Government and the EU.
As a committed Remainer (god how I hate that term) I was hoping we could drift towards some sort of mutially agreeable fudge but now I say sod it, go for a hard Brexit. Re-set the relationship completely and then sit down and start from a blank piece of paper.
As for the Irish; they can get fucked - bunch of spud-faced chancers. And if that means the border goes up, so be it. They can take Ryanair with them and all.
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Post by scouse on Jul 20, 2018 12:10:28 GMT
As a leaver, the whole thing has gone the way I thought it would. The EU where going to do anything to protect the EU superstate project and the civil service/remain MPs where going to run interference for the EU. As for the Irish and the air routes, are you sure you want to go there Paddy?* And by the way, what do you the suppose the response times would be for the French/Spanish airforce with regards to a terrorist hijacking since you obviously don't want us to cross your airspace? *Not that air routes have anything to do with the EU anyway, but....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 12:26:37 GMT
I'm fed up with the whole lot. Both sides are taking the piss now - both the UK Government and the EU. As a committed Remainer (god how I hate that term) I was hoping we could drift towards some sort of mutially agreeable fudge but now I say sod it, go for a hard Brexit. Re-set the relationship completely and then sit down and start from a blank piece of paper. As for the Irish; they can get fucked - bunch of spud-faced chancers. And if that means the border goes up, so be it. They can take Ryanair with them and all. There seems to be nothing between do it the EU way or hard brexit with nothing in between. Seems obvious to me that the scare is in to the other member states. If the hard border for Ireland happens I only hope we get rid of their travelers too.
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Post by ChrisM on Jul 20, 2018 12:58:32 GMT
We're now confronted by the things that Leave campaigns never told us about, but then neither did Remain campaigns use them to warn of the dangers. Simple things like needing an international permit to drive in the EU, something that needs administrating ... We need to strike a deal whereby the UK driving licence is still recognised in EU countries instead of the EU taking a political stance against us and forcing this through. You don't need an International Driving Permit / Licence to drive in Malaysia if youi have a full UK licence, so why should you need one to drive in France, Grrece etc etc?
Same applies for many other things where bureacracy may be imposed on us by the EU out of spite (or whatever)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 13:05:36 GMT
Thing is, the |E|U have been 'addressing' our businesses, so perhaps we should address THEIR businesses and show them the balance of trade and how much THEY will lose?
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Post by Tim on Jul 20, 2018 13:16:12 GMT
On the UK side I'm embarassed by the whole thing at the moment. The Tories need to remember why they're (nominally) in power, i.e. to run the country for the benefit of its citizens. That means catering for the people who wanted to leave, those who wanted to remain and those who couldn't be arsed to decide. People like Rees Mogg boil my piss, I think Boris is a particularly nasty version (in a collective group of tossers) of a manipulative, greedy self-serving wanker and Theresa May has allowed herself to come across as a person unable to be clearly decisive. She may not be like that behind closed doors but if so I'd like to see her putting her foot down. I feel the in-fighting of the Tories is leading us to a pretty poor result whatever happens. Contrary to Scouse's comment I think the EU don't need to do anything as our own leaders are going to take us past the wire all by themselves.
Also, what the fuck are Labour doing? Apart from headlines about anti-semitism there is little noise coming from them at all.
Same for the Limp Dems except without the anti-semitism.
It's a fucking mess.
Once its all over I would like to see ALL the MPs given the sack and lets start again with some people who've never been near politics in their life. It couldn't be any worse.
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Post by johnc on Jul 20, 2018 16:15:02 GMT
It's a fucking mess. Once its all over I would like to see ALL the MPs given the sack and lets start again with some people who've never been near politics in their life. It couldn't be any worse. I agree.
One of the issues is that Corbyn was always anti EU so he is just allowing the Tories to get on with creating a massive mess in the hope that he can slide into power when the shit hits the fan and the Government collapses leaving us all up to our necks in trouble. The problem with Corbyn's politics, IMHO, is that they will be even more destructive and the UK will be well broke by the time he is finished. Unfortunately the Tories will probably do their best to destroy themselves from within and we could end up with enormous near irreparable damage to our economy from 10 years of Corbyn and his pals.
I don't see any positives from any outcome.
I also think Rees Mogg comes over as a smarmy, self interested git who only wants out of the EU. He doesn't care that half the population don't agree with him and as far as he is concerned he won so Remainers have no rights to anything!
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Post by Alex on Jul 20, 2018 18:24:37 GMT
I agree with all of that, it’s a total fucking mess and the tories have made us the biggest laughing stock in the world which is pretty embarrassing when we live in a world where the septics voted Trump in to the White House!
I would never vote for leave but there was always a chance Brexit could have been a resounding success that set the UK on the course to a really bright future but our government have let individual political ambitions and over inflated egos bring chaos to proceedings. So now we’re left with a government full of remainers who are turning the warnings of disaster into self fulfilling profecies.
I think that Labour know full well that Corbyn is a shambles who will never be PM but are happy to let him get on with it whilst the Tories set about self implosion.
But on the plus side our passports will be blue again. Rejoice!
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Post by Boxer6 on Jul 20, 2018 19:24:35 GMT
But on the plus side our passports will be blue again. Rejoice! And made in France! Woo .. .. .. and indeed, hoo!!
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 20, 2018 22:42:35 GMT
It’s as if passport covers had never invented...
I myself have had a red one for the last 12 years which Jacob Rees Mogg would surely adore - it has the three lions of England on the front and the words “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” on the front, but absolutely no reference to the EU whatsoever.
And that’s despite me continuing to think Brexit is fuckwittery of the very highest order.
Sorry Bob but I will never have any truck with the “I voted Remain but now I just want to see us leave” line.
I believe in calling a spade a spade. And it remains a spade even if everyone else suddenly decides it is actually a pitchfork. I’m not going to call a spade a pitchfork just because others do and want me to. I could describe it with many terms but I’ll settle on “illogical”.
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Post by racingteatray on Jul 21, 2018 9:23:44 GMT
Now I get that the FT is the yin to the Daily Mail’s yang when it comes to Brexit but if there is even a remote chance that any of what is described in this article is possible, then it just once again begs the question of just WTF are we doing...
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Post by Tim on Jul 23, 2018 12:58:18 GMT
Re above, I visited my mum yesterday, she stays on the edge of a village, and when I left I was aware of a field full of cabbages (I think) that remained unpicked and some sheep in the field. This is the kind of crop that last year would've been harvested by now, using a mix of machinery and a bunch of cheap foreign labourers. But they've not come across this year and by all accounts there are a lot of crops being left to rot due to lack of manpower to bring them in. Great.
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Post by johnc on Jul 23, 2018 14:07:55 GMT
I'm totally dejected by the whole Brexit thing now. I have no respect for Politicians who are clearly involved in their own personal crusade rather than what's good for the country and I have great fear of a destructive no deal.
I wonder how those who voted to leave are going to feel when they are stuck in a 2 or 3 hr queue at Customs in Spain, when they can't bring back anything like as much duty free and when the price of everything at home rockets: I don't see much to be positive about there.
I noticed that Barclays are going to set up one of their hubs in Glasgow and create up to 2,500 jobs. Firstly I think it is good for the country to have jobs outside London and the SE so that wealth is more evenly spread and the grossly over-heated areas can be cooled a bit. BUT I did wonder if Barclays are hedging their bets on a disastrous Brexit followed by another Indy referendum which could end up with Scotland being back in the EU. What a complete and utter mess which is only going to cost us all a fortune but achieve very little in the long run other than more division and a weaker economy.
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Post by Tim on Jul 23, 2018 15:42:08 GMT
The point has been made that Barclays are saying UP TO 2500 jobs. It might end up being 25! At least its a sign of something though, presumably it at least implies security for the 2500 jobs already there.
I agree with your dejection and feelings for politicians (all of them!).
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Post by Roadsterstu on Aug 1, 2018 0:38:35 GMT
I wonder how those who voted to leave are going to feel when they are stuck in a 2 or 3 hr queue at Customs in Spain, when they can't bring back anything like as much duty free and when the price of everything at home rockets: I don't see much to be positive about there. I would feel mightily pissed off that it was because our useless shower of shit politicians couldn't organise a decent Brexit deal, not because I voted leave.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 1, 2018 7:14:40 GMT
I wonder how those who voted to leave are going to feel when they are stuck in a 2 or 3 hr queue at Customs in Spain, when they can't bring back anything like as much duty free and when the price of everything at home rockets: I don't see much to be positive about there. I would feel mightily pissed off that it was because our useless shower of shit politicians couldn't organise a decent Brexit deal, not because I voted leave. +1
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 1, 2018 7:35:43 GMT
Call me an old cynic but I find it funny how the EU can trumpet a trade deal with Japan that eliminates protective tariffs, opens their market to EU services and commits them to free and fair trade, citing the common values we share, and cooperation on security. But somehow this is impossible to for the UK, their partners for four decades.
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Post by Tim on Aug 1, 2018 8:34:24 GMT
No cynicism required. 1. We beat the Germans twice last century and now they can get their own back economically. 2. The French have never liked us. None of the remaining 25 EU Counties have such a decisive voice, ergo we're going to get fucked over.
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 1, 2018 9:05:07 GMT
No cynicism required. 1. We beat the Germans twice last century and now they can get their own back economically. 2. The French have never liked us. None of the remaining 25 EU Counties have such a decisive voice, ergo we're going to get fucked over. Well possibly, but it goes back to my comment that as we can't go back to the day after the referendum and change the result, no matter how much we'd like to, so we should press the reset and negotiate as a completely new trading partner from scratch. If that results in a shortage of sun dried tomatoes in Islington we'll have to live with it.
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Post by Tim on Aug 1, 2018 11:08:53 GMT
I agree it's just that our current shower of wonderful leaders can't even negoatiate discreetly amongst themselves let alone with anyone else. Its not going to be helped when some of the voices shouting from the sidelines (but apparently not keen to actually get involved and help) appear to have an antiquated view of 'foreigners'.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 1, 2018 12:15:56 GMT
We managed for many, many years on our own before we joined the "Common Market"..... why shouldn't we be able to manage again when out of it?
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 1, 2018 12:35:52 GMT
We managed for many, many years on our own before we joined the "Common Market"..... why shouldn't we be able to manage again when out of it? What?? We managed before we had cars, trains, buses and natural gas. Want a return to that? The reason we can't move back to that is because the world has changed beyond recognition, even from the '90s let alone 1973. People's expectations have altered so much, and in the over developed countries such as the UK not necessarily for the better. Service industries are desperate for staff as EU staff are simply not coming over here to be called "job-stealers" and "NHS-spongers" whilst working (some in the NHS!) and paying tax and NI by people that are now not taking any of those jobs that are now available because they think they are above all that. We (as a general society, not individuals) now don't buy a kettle once and expect bit to last an entire marriage; or have the same Bakelite phone in the hallway for three decades; or even make do with what we've already got. If we run out of something or need new nappies / batteries / lightbulbs / the groceries we go on line, select from a choice of a gazillion items and expect them to be delivered, sometimes THE SAME DAY. We're an island because we're surrounded by sea but that's just geography. As far as living in the 21st century we're just a blob of humanity near another blob of humanity with a pretty similar outlook on life.
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 1, 2018 12:50:27 GMT
No cynicism required. 1. We beat the Germans twice last century and now they can get their own back economically. 2. The French have never liked us. None of the remaining 25 EU Counties have such a decisive voice, ergo we're going to get fucked over. As someone with a Mother living in France, a half-German step-brother living in Germany and a Slovak partner with a sister married to an Afghani living in Czech let me assure you that the rest of the EU think we're arseholes too. Here are some reasons why, clearly stated to me on regular occasions: Our men are largely homosexuals (not enough enforced competitive sport from a young age; women have too much say in society and pink shirts are available to buy in men's departments); our women are drunken bitches that don't even have the sense to sell their pussies for sex and just give it away and our children are forced to start school at the age of 4 yet still have a higher percentage of low attainers by the age of 18 than those that start school at 7. Despite all this we think we are the envy of the world, that we invented everything worth inventing and think that all foreigners are to be despised and treated with suspicion as they are clearly all criminals, yet we have a police force stymied by legal challenges in enforcing order and a capital city with levels of street crime and violence that surpass those of NYC on many occasions. Basically they can't wait to rid of us to get the EU stats on "quality of life" higher up the world charts!
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 1, 2018 13:53:48 GMT
No cynicism required. 1. We beat the Germans twice last century and now they can get their own back economically. 2. The French have never liked us. None of the remaining 25 EU Counties have such a decisive voice, ergo we're going to get fucked over. As someone with a Mother living in France, a half-German step-brother living in Germany and a Slovak partner with a sister married to an Afghani living in Czech let me assure you that the rest of the EU think we're arseholes too. Here are some reasons why, clearly stated to me on regular occasions: Our men are largely homosexuals (not enough enforced competitive sport from a young age; women have too much say in society and pink shirts are available to buy in men's departments); our women are drunken bitches that don't even have the sense to sell their pussies for sex and just give it away and our children are forced to start school at the age of 4 yet still have a higher percentage of low attainers by the age of 18 than those that start school at 7. Despite all this we think we are the envy of the world, that we invented everything worth inventing and think that all foreigners are to be despised and treated with suspicion as they are clearly all criminals, yet we have a police force stymied by legal challenges in enforcing order and a capital city with levels of street crime and violence that surpass those of NYC on many occasions. Basically they can't wait to rid of us to get the EU stats on "quality of life" higher up the world charts! to be fair they are right - we did invent everything that was worth inventing.
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Post by Big Blue on Aug 1, 2018 15:30:47 GMT
As someone with a Mother living in France, a half-German step-brother living in Germany and a Slovak partner with a sister married to an Afghani living in Czech let me assure you that the rest of the EU think we're arseholes too. Here are some reasons why, clearly stated to me on regular occasions: Our men are largely homosexuals (not enough enforced competitive sport from a young age; women have too much say in society and pink shirts are available to buy in men's departments); our women are drunken bitches that don't even have the sense to sell their pussies for sex and just give it away and our children are forced to start school at the age of 4 yet still have a higher percentage of low attainers by the age of 18 than those that start school at 7. Despite all this we think we are the envy of the world, that we invented everything worth inventing and think that all foreigners are to be despised and treated with suspicion as they are clearly all criminals, yet we have a police force stymied by legal challenges in enforcing order and a capital city with levels of street crime and violence that surpass those of NYC on many occasions. Basically they can't wait to rid of us to get the EU stats on "quality of life" higher up the world charts! to be fair they are right - we did invent everything that was worth inventing. Maybe not the thing to say on a car forum, mein herr
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Post by Bob Sacamano v2.0 on Aug 1, 2018 20:22:16 GMT
to be fair they are right - we did invent everything that was worth inventing. Maybe not the thing to say on a car forum, mein herr The British were so busy inventing everything else we had to subcontract the car to the Germans. Not that they ever thank us for it.
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Post by ChrisM on Aug 1, 2018 20:45:56 GMT
When I said "on our own", I meant with trading arrangements in place, not surviving without any foreign trade or immigration/emigration.
We should surely be able to put in place new legislation that replaces European Directive-inspired laws which continues to allow (free) movement of goods and people with other European nations
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